Growing Up

by Jimmy Akin on March 29, 2006

in Islam

Abdul_rahmanI’ve been meaning to blog about Abdul Rahman, the Afghani convert to Christianity who was imprisoned for his faith and threatened with the death penalty.

(First, please indulge the language nitpicker in me for a moment as I point out that the /h/ in his second name is not silent. His name is pronounced /RAH-man/ with an audible expulsion of air at the end of the first syllable. Rahman is an Arabic word that means "merciful." I don’t know if Mr. Rahman is a speaker of Dari or Pashto or another language, but his second name seems to be a loanword from Arabic.)

Now for actually serious matters:

I’m pleased to report–as you likely already know–that the charges against him have been dropped, albeit on a technicality. The wave of Western pressure on the Afghani government has worked–so far.

But the struggle is not over, since Mr. Rahman’s safety must be secured, and if they just let him loose on the streets then he’ll be killed in short order by fanatical Muslims.

He has now applied for foreign asylum, and Italy has offered it. Other countries are expected to offer it as well.

GET THE STORY.

The larger issue here is that we have a victory in the process of getting Muslims to behave like civilized human beings. Sure, there are plenty of zealots who are willing to off Mr. Rahman in a heartbeat, but the Afghani government has realized that it needed to cave on this one if it didn’t want to alienate the West, upon which it is significantly dependent.

Good.

Muslim countries need to learn that they can’t have it all their own way.

When children learn this fact, we call it "socialization." Right now what the Muslim world needs is a massive series of lessons in socialization.

I’ve already pointed to the need to shame Muslims for unacceptable behavior in their culture, just as children need to be made to feel shame when they have done something unacceptable so that they internalize the drive not to do it again.

The cartoon riots and the vandalism and violence and killings that they resulted in were an example of this. They are something that the Muslim community should feel ashamed of.

So is the treatment of Mr. Rahman.

It’s high time that the West get off its cultural relativist hobby horse and say to the Muslim world: "Some behaviors are simply unacceptable, and you should feel ashamed if you commit or tolerate them. Grow up and clean up your act."

The kind of cultural relativism that has infected many in the West is itself a sign of immaturity. It’s a kind of culturally adolescent phase.

You ever notice how teen agers latch on to cultural relativism as a way of undermining the idea that anything is really wrong–so that they can justify the things that they want to do that are wrong?

It’s when you grow up and really have to take responsibility for yourself that you set aside both the self-centered tantrums of childhood and the kind of self-centered rationalizations that characterize adolescence.

The present confrontations with Muslim tantrumhood may help many in the West grow out of their cultural adolescence.

So we may both get a lesson in growing up.

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A long time ago (before the internet) I was confused in my faith and I was brought into the One True Church partly because people took the time and effort to talk to me about it.
Some took the trouble to debate these things in public, and others wrote books.
It was in large part because of their efforts (along with the action of the Holy Spirit) that I was able to come to the knowledge of the Truth.
I will always be grateful to them.
So, loving my neighbor as myself means that I want to pass on to others what I have received, even if they don't seem to be interested in a genuine discussion and would rather hide behind platitudes.
You are in my prayers, No Name.

And what is His will for you?

Everyone enjoy your follies!

Ed got it right on another thread. Still, I can't help but LOL.

Tim J.,
Amen.
Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

I will pray for you, anonymous.

Innocencio, bill 912-
You have fought the good fight, but I hate to see you keep beating your head against this invincible ignorance...
"In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving'." Matt. 13:14

You think you know Him because you know His name?
John 5:39-40, 6:51-57
We know Him because as members of His Mystical Body and Bride we recieve Him Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. The great Mystery is Christ and His Church/Bride. Eph. 5:32
Luke 10:16
Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

You immerse yourself in yours.
Act of Faith
O my God, I firmly believe that Thou art one God in three divine Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. I believe that Thy divine Son became man, died for our sins, and that He will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe these and all the truths which the Holy Catholic Church teacheth, because Thou hast revealed them, Who canst neither deceive nor be deceived. Amen.
Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

We could go back and forth all day quoting the Sacred Scriptures (the Holy Bible). Since all of Sacred Scripture can be summed up in one word Jesus, we have to accept the authority He established. I know you will again ignore that fact and His Church.
To everyone else suffering through this post I apologize.
Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

Perhaps you will next say comparative religion educators are "accursed".
What do you think St. Paul would say? Oh we already know because he repeated himself quite forcefully. Read also Gospel of Matthew 10:32-40.
Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

I took a class in comparative religion at a secular university.
(Yes, we studied Islam)
We had to right a paper at the end. giving our thoughts on the future of religion.
I don't remember anything I wrote except that the Catholic Church would be forced to modernize it's doctrine, or shrink into irrelevancy.
I am now a Catholic (coming up on 14 years) and see how 180 degrees wrong I was.
Thank God for the grace and mercy he gives to the ignorant.

If you ignore His authoritative Church you reject Him and remain clueless.
Take care, Good night and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

8: But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed.
9: As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.

11: But they refused to hearken, and turned a stubborn shoulder, and stopped their ears that they might not hear. 12: They made their hearts like adamant lest they should hear the law and the words which the LORD of hosts had sent by his Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore great wrath came from the LORD of hosts. 13: "As I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear," says the LORD of hosts, 14: "and I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations which they had not known. Thus the land they left was desolate, so that no one went to and fro, and the pleasant land was made desolate."
"He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

"Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for Justice; they will be satisfied."

So... forgiving people means we roll over and let them murder the innocent?
Nice.
I'll remember that when some armed & dangerous escaped convict is loose in my neighborhood - WHICH ACTUALLY HAPPENED VERY RECENTLY - and just hope that after he is finished with me he will be nice to my wife & kids.
I could forgive such a person (understanding that he is as much a victim of his sin as his victims) and I would earnestly and sincerely pray for his soul, after I busted a cap on his a**.
The strong have an obligation to protect the weak. With our prayers first, and with physical force if it comes to that.
Of course we should ask forgiveness for our own lack of faith and love. Of course we should forgive those who hate us and want to see us dead. Of course we should pray for their conversion, rather than their death.
But if one of the wankers whips out a box cutter on any flight I am on, he can expect me to do my best to send him straight to Allah and the 72 virgins, or whatever...

Amen No-na...er Sunshine

Let us forgive and ask forgiveness! While we praise God who, in his merciful love, has produced in the Church a wonderful harvest of holiness, missionary zeal, total dedication to Christ and neighbour, we cannot fail to recognize the infidelities to the Gospel committed by some of our brethren, especially during the second millennium. Let us ask pardon for the divisions which have occurred among Christians, for the violence some have used in the service of the truth and for the distrustful and hostile attitudes sometimes taken towards the followers of other religions.
Let us confess, even more, our responsibilities as Christians for the evils of today. We must ask ourselves what our responsibilities are regarding atheism, religious indifference, secularism, ethical relativism, the violations of the right to life, disregard for the poor in many countries.
We humbly ask forgiveness for the part which each of us has had in these evils by our own actions, thus helping to disfigure the face of the Church.
At the same time, as we confess our sins, let us forgive the sins committed by others against us. Countless times in the course of history Christians have suffered hardship, oppression and persecution because of their faith. Just as the victims of such abuses forgave them, so let us forgive as well. The Church today feels and has always felt obliged to purify her memory of those sad events from every feeling of rancour or revenge.
The acceptance of God's forgiveness leads to the commitment to forgive our brothers and sisters and to be reconciled with them.

This reminds me of the story (I think it was from Chesterton) about the man who held that "Christianity and Islam were really quite similar, especially Islam".

The Muslims who are calling for the killing of Muslims who convert to another religion must believe that Islam is a very weak religion that can't stand up to other religions on a level playing field.

And, yes, he will prove me right again.

Forget it , Inocencio; a tin foil hat is a shield against rationality.

He established a Church as our guide and not you. If you ignore His authoritative Church you reject Him and remain clueless.
Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

Edward,
Much better! Writing that down.
Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

Inocencio,
"A text without a context is a pretext."
Better yet -- take text out of context, and you're left with a con. ;-)

I see we have a "no name" troll that likes to present false dichotomies as an argument.
Move along folks. There's nothing to see here.

Your first sentence nailed it, Inocencio

No-Name,
I expect your next reply to be..."I am rubber, you are glue. Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you."
I said you cannot quote Sacred Scripture out of context. You run the risk of twisting Sacred Scripture to your own eternal destruction. A text without a context is a pretext.
Our Blessed Lord established a Church to teach and guide us, especially concerning His Word both Sacred Tradition and Scripture. His Bride has this authority even if you are ignorant of or reject that fact.
Have you read any of the writings of the early Church fathers or do you just make up your beliefs to fit your lifestyle.
Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

"I don't believe Muslim scholars any more than I believe Christian or Catholic scholars. "
But, "No-Name", I thought you always had a high regard for certain wing-nut, left-field Catholic scholars.

Why pull punches for the sake of being politically correct and/or "ecumenical?'
Mohammed was NOT a prophet. The Koran was, most certainly, something other than inspired text. (e.g., Rushdie got it right when he spoke of or otherwise alluded to "Satanic Verses.") Mohammed was, at best, a pedophile, a bigamist, and, above all else, a mental patient. He most certainly was NOT a prophet!
Mohammed is dead (and, most likely, in Hell); Christ, by contrast, IS God and is very much alive.

How wonderful to be able so freely to disengage words from the meanings their users intended.
One wonders though how such an attitude can square this lack of respect for the words of others with any respect at all for the Divine Word which IS.
PVO

I thought something up in my wee brain as I was watching you all feed the troll here. In this day and age, it is more or less pointless to kill people who convert.
The technology available now makes it possible for the truth to be spoken anywhere, to anyone and by anyone, anywhere. Go ahead and kill your neighbor, loving Muslim, because that won't stop the fire.
Anyone with half a brain cell can see from the above argument that Islam (like Protestantism -- but of course Islam is a type of proto-Protestantism) suffers from a perpetually adolescent (and therefore inadequate and unfulfilling) spirituality that falls far short of the advanced cohesiveness offered by Catholicism (the faith that gave birth to theology).
Many people believe the greater range of the cacophony of voices in this fourth age of human media will exacerbate the fissiparous nature of modern religious understanding. I believe quite the opposite: that technologies like the internet, cell phones, and other media will lay truth on the table for all to see and humans, being oriented towards the truth, will naturally see where that truth lies and gravitate towards Him.
This age will be an age of greater unification and not division because all humans objectively have love of Truth in common.
Much of this is naturally contingent on the availability of such technologies and adherents to Islam are notoriously behind the curve for various reasons. But the big difference is this technology, unlike running water or TV, constantly seeks out new territory on its own -- like some giant blob monster, or the English language, or Christianity itself -- this new technology is constantly trying to expand and simultaneously go deeper.
If Muslims are not afraid to have the inadequacy of their faith laid bare for all to see (I assume they do not share my opinion of Islam and would therefore walk willingly into the trap), then they should have no problem embracing the new technology by way of accepting the challenge.
There is no resorting to swords, guns, bombs, etc here. The technology precludes such barbarism. If their faith is so gloriously full of truth, then will they finally have the guts to go toe-to-toe without violence?
Time will tell. But for the Muslim, taking up the challenge will end in defeat. At the same time not taking up the challenge will end in defeat plus the added shame of being branded a coward like No-Name.

I just wanted to say that I had a D&D character named Abdur-Rahman whose main conflict mirrored Abdul Rahman's.
It was an unusual concidence to see this story develop.

My point about enslaving your neighbor was that this is, in fact, what most Muslim scholars recognize as the way to deal with non-believers who won't convert.

No-name,
I am going to suggest that you cannot quote Sacred Scripture out of context. And since Sacred Scripture is the inerrant Word of God and cannot contradict itself all of Sacred Scripture has to be reconciled.
Since the Church is the Pillar and Bulwark of the Truth it alone has the authority, given by Our Blessed Lord to teach, interpret and protect the Sacred Scriptures and Sacred Tradition.
So you don't twist them to you own destruction. Even the devil tried to quote the Sacred Scriptures out of context.
Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

No-name,
Have you not read?
John 15:15 No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you.
or
2 Peter 3:16 There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.
or
1 Tim 3:15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
This love is Trinitarian. In the Blessed Trinity, neighbor *is* self.

God has Slaves? I want some citation for that.

Anonymous, do you really think that enslaving your neighbor counts as love?

"He who thinks himself proven right is wrong."
Are you an undergrad psych experiment?

And thanks to Inocencio and bill912 for their insights & comments to Mr. No - Name and their willingness to post here.
I (and all orthodox Christians, Catholic & Protestant) believe in a Trinitarian God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. If the Muslims believe only in God, the Creator, Yahweh of the Old Testament, that's great but it's not the whole Truth - as the Catechism states: all faiths contain some truths and are a 'preparation for the Gospel' - (sorry I can't give paragraph #'s - don't have my catechism with me right now). They are redeemed by Christ but until they accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, they are without salvation. What more needs to be said?

Jimmy,
I haven't read all of the postings on this yet, so maybe somebody has already said this but my comment on these remarks:
"getting Muslims to behave like civilized human beings"
"the need to shame Muslims for unacceptable behavior in their culture"
is this: Thank You! Finally a statement that tells it like it is without worrying about being "politically correct" - a breath of fresh air and I applaud you for it!

How do Christians and Muslims differ in their view of God?
Let’s see. As a start, God is Allah in Arabic and the word Allah has its roots in Aramaic and Hebrew and must be glorified. Unlike Christians, Muslims don’t believe that man is created in God’s image. For Christians, God is a Father and for the people who will end up in heaven, is knowable (will see Him). Allah, on the other hand, is a master who deals only with his Muslim slaves and hates unbelievers (infidels). A good Muslim obeys His commands in order to gain entry into paradise, but will never see Him. The idea of God sacrificing Himself for our sake is unique only to Christianity and it is a blasphemy to Islam. Islam considers God, The Trinity, as nothing but Christian polytheism (many gods). The Second Person of The Trinity, Christ, a slave like any Muslim, is nothing more than a lower ranking prophet to Mohammed (although, Islamic tradition holds that Jesus Christ, and not Mohammed or anyone else, will return in the second coming during Judgement Day. Why Jesus and not Mohammed, is not explained by Islam). This is one of many Judeo-Christian theologies, masquerading as Allah’s revelation to Mohammed. One can list many differing points between God and Allah, to the point where the Koranic Allah becomes radically different from the God of the Bible.

"God is right. Are you God?"
Are you?
God has not left us orphans, but has given us His revealed word. We can know His mind (to some extent) because He has revealed it though His Church.
To the extent that the Muslim view of God comes into conformity with Revealed Truth, Muslims worship the True God.
So, Muslims worship One God. That's better than believing in a bunch of gods, like the pagans, but it falls short of believing in the Trinity that God has revealed Himself to be.
They worship God as creator. That's good, and beats the heck out of believing that Creation is God. But they worship God as Master, and not as Father.
If you think this makes no difference, then look at the way Islam treats non-Muslims. According to the Q'uran, non-Muslims must either submit (the meaning of the word "Islam") by conversion, or by living under Muslim law and paying a tribute (in other words, living as slaves). In any case, they are not allowed simply to ignore Islam and live by some different faith.
So, while the Muslim understanding of God is better than many other faiths, it is still woefully insufficient. Thankfully, some Muslims live in a way that affirms God as a loving Father, even if this is not explicitly part of the Muslim faith. In this case, they are better than their creed.
And, unfortunately, many Christians live in a way that brings shame to the faith they profess. They are not worthy of their creed.
Lord, help us all to be worthy of your promises, and to uphold your revealed truth!

"Do Catholics and Muslims not worship the one God, the Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen?"
Note the word missing before "Almighty," namely "Father." How many muslims can call God "Abba," as Jesus Christ did? As I understand it, the Fatherhood of God is missing from Islam.

No-name,
When you move the mountain in your heart that prevents you from see Our Blessed Lord's Church, let us know.
Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

We move mountains every day; call me when your fortune-cookie indifferentism brings one person back from the brink of self-annihilation.
PVO

No-name,
Ok you are not Catholic. Please don't be surprised that a Catholic Blog presents a Catholic perspective and teaching.
As with all non-Catholics I am happy you read Jimmy's Blog.
Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

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