Mary Elizabeth,
What gives you the authority to say that celibacy contradicts God's will when the Bible and Apostolic Tradition says nothing of the sort.
We must obey God rather than men.
The Sanhedrin and the Jewish High Priest had no authority over Christians, at least by the time Peter said this, and never had the kind of authority the Apostles and their successors have.
The apostles, and their successors, teach with the authority of Christ, who said to them "he who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects the one who sent me."
The apostle Paul, and the successors of the apostles, not to mention Jesus, have consistantly taught by word and example (a few big sinners aside when it comes to example) the value of the gift of celibacy. You are simply not free to reject this, for in doing so you are following teachers who tickle your ears and not to God, with whose authority the Church teaches.
As St. Paul wrote in first letter to St. Timothy, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
The Church also teaches that the virtue of Faith is belief in God, in all God has said, and all His Church proposes for our belief.
If you do not accept this, then your faith is imperfect and quite fallible. I say this not to be insulting or to say there is no way you can be saved (if you are not culpable for your lack of belief) but I say it because we Catholics think on a completely different wavelength about the teachings of the Church than you.
It is true that mandatory priestly celibacy is a matter of discipline and could be lifted. Indeed exceptions are made in some unusual circumstances today, and most Eastern rites do not require celibacy of priests (but do require it of bishops and of course monks). It is probably within the rights of a Catholic to suggest the requirment should be lifted for practical reasons like alleviating the priest shortage, but not to reject Church teaching (and a simple reading of Scripture) in saying celibacy is against God's will. Even so, obstinant, disrespectful, argumentative disagreement with a well meant, moral, traditional Church discipline would be anything but the humble, charitable, and obedient attitude we laypeople should have towards those in legitimate positions of authority over us, especially in the Church.

How can we be sure we are following God and doing what He wants unless we follow the Vicar of Christ, to whom our Lord imparted His own Authority?

Mary Elizabeth: I'm not aware of any "man-made laws that go against God's commandments" mentioned above. What are you talking about?

"I shall follow God as the Apostles in Acts did." They followed Peter.

Kevin:
"you keep written "man made rules" obedience is a God made rule learn it!"
We must be obedient to the one-true-living God and not to man-made laws that go against God's commandments. Those who go against God, change God's will and the Bible, will answer to God accordingly.
Dr Eric:
"Having written what I have written I want to make the point that the Pope and the Heirarchy of the Latin Church is well within its power to impose celebacy of its priests. Also, if necessary, the Latin Church can also relax that discipline. The Church of Rome can do what She wants as far as discipline in accordance with the Scriptures: Matt 16:18, et al."
Matthew 16:18 - And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
Jesus built his church on Peter, yes, but Jesus did not give Peter or any other the authority to change God's will and create laws that go against His will! I shall follow God as the Apostles did in Acts.
Acts 5:29-33 - But Peter and the apostles said in reply, "We must obey God rather than men.
The God of our ancestors raised Jesus, though you had him killed by hanging him on a tree.
God exalted him at his right hand as leader and savior to grant Israel repentance and forgiveness of sins. We are witnesses of these things, as is the holy Spirit that God has given to those who obey him." When they heard this, they became infuriated and wanted to put them to death.
God's peace to all,
ME

Having written what I have written I want to make the point that the Pope and the Heirarchy of the Latin Church is well within its power to impose celebacy of its priests. Also, if necessary, the Latin Church can also relax that discipline. The Church of Rome can do what She wants as far as discipline in accordance with the Scriptures: Matt 16:18, et al.

Liz,
you keep written "man made rules" obedience is a God made rule learn it!
The dynamics of the Church at the time of the Protestant Reformation was overwhelming, much going on with political powers at work, monarchs wanting more power and wealth (Kings of france and princes of the Germany states etc. basically non-relgious men), the Muslims attacking Austria (center of the Holy Roman Empire), the final lost of Constantinople and finally the fight for a Christian Spain. The disolving of Catholic charity in England where the people lost their welfare in the monastries for the sick, orphaned and elderly all stolen by so-called Anglican and Purtian liberators of the people total rubbish.
The Protestant answer was never the answer because it was filled with disobedience. Christ instructed us to obey our elders he did not claim they would be sinless, and impecciable.
Kevin

Thought I'd add my 2 cents one more time, but I just wanted y'all to know that a very good female friend of mine is currently discerning a call to be a consecrated virgin. It is a rare vocation - this means that she will remain a "lay" person living in the world, with a career and such, but wants to dedicate herself and her virginity and enter into a "spousal" relationship with Christ. She is a very fun, outgoing, attractive and intelligent person. She is not deranged, needy, or reclusive.
The call is the call - you can all make of it what you will, but when the Lord calls you to a certain state in life, especially if He wants you to be in an exclusively dedicated relationship with Him - you discern the call, and then make a decision whether or not you feel you can answer the call.
And as an aside - to be called to be a nun or a priest does not mean that God loves them better than married people. He loves all and both vocations are holy. He has different missions for each vocation.
Remember that there are convents of cloistered nuns all over the world who intercede morning, noon and night DAILY for the salvation of the world and for people's intentions. Could a group of married people do this every day?
God, however, respects our free will, and as St. Paul says it is better to marry than to "burn". But many people here have given ample Scripture verses to show that while marriage is the normal vocation and most are called to it, there are a few whom the Lord calls to the consecrated life, and celibacy in order to serve Him more exclusively.

"Well, Inocencio, according to your judgement, I have rejected God for being married ..."
No one said that. You KNOW that nobody here believes it, and if you had anything of substance to add, you would have already done so.
Some are called to marriage, some to celibacy. You don't want to hear this, so why keep returning?
Yes, celibacy is an authoritative, legitimately established discipline, not an absolute biblical requirement for the priesthood, as has already been discussed ad nauseum...
Thank God for the gift He has given His Church in celibate priests and religious, as well as in holy Christian families!
God bless y'all!

Liz,
If you would read the catechism it states marriage is a good and celibacy is better. Just as our Blessed Lord pointed out and St. Paul also said.
I am married and have 6 children so far. That is my vocation as a husband and father. You have your vocation and a ordained Catholic priest has his.
Luke 10:16
Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

Well, Inocencio, according to your judgement, I have rejected God for being married and having innate sex and having children. I wonder who Jesus will judge more harshly, me for listening to the Creator and Reedemer or you for following church rule. Oh, and lets not forget, that when Jesus returns for the final judgement, He's going to judge his children on 3 things, you know them because there in the CCC and you've read that cover to cover, and they don't include celibacy or listening to man-made church rules!
God Bless you too!
Liz

Liz,
"Celibacy is not God's rule but Church rule only!
We have been through all of this already. Our Blessed Lord gave His authority to bind and loose to the Church. Our Blessed Lord said those that do not hear who He sent do not hear Him and reject Him and God the Father.
Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

Dr Eric,
I most certainly agree w/ you. Celibacy is a disipline (a set of rules or methods, as those regulating the practice of a church or monastic order). Celibacy is not God's rule but Church rule only!
Peace,
Liz

Let's start with Blessed Emilian Kovc, he was a married priest from Ukraine who hid many Jews and stood up to the Nazis and was martyred for it.
Celebacy is not a requirement for the Holy Priesthood, it is a discipline imposed by the Latin Church.
In the East (Catholic and Orthodox) men are allowed to be ordained to the Deaconate and Priesthood if they are already married. If a man is ordained he can no longer marry. This is also true for a widowed married priest, although there have been some exceptions. A married priest functions like a diocesan priest in the Latin Church. Celebate monastic priests are nevertheless held in higher esteem than a married priest and these men are chosen for the episcopacy.
In the beginning there have ALWAYS been married AND celebate priests, even in the Latin Church. But now the discipline allows married priests in the Eastern Catholic Churches.

Yes, How the Church looks on a laicized priest or religious?
God Bless,
Sally
J+M+J

"If God called you to be married, He obviously wasn't calling you to be a Franciscan friar any longer.
By this logic, if God called you to be married to Sally, He obviously wasn't calling you to be married to Sue any longer, and we can overlook the prohibitions on divorce."
Mary-
Perhaps I didn't put that well. My point was that one is called to marriage, or not. I don't think that God calls people to be priests or religious "for a while".
Since the fellow is now married, he was either mistaken about his vocation to be a Franciscan friar, or he abandoned that vocation against God's will. In my haste, I didn't say what I should have, which is that he was obviously not cut out to be a Franciscan (or any other kind of) friar.
In either case, he is now absolutely called to fulfill his marriage vows and remain married.
Anyone know how the Church looks on the true vocation of a laicized priest or religious?

Dear Maria Lopez,
What a upsetting story! Its devestating to see a man/priest have an immoral relationship and then kill the lover to, possibly, cover it up. We should forgive him and pray for him as the Church tells us too.
God Bless,
Sally
J+M+J

Maria Lopez in New Mexico,
Do you have a point to make?
That is a horrible occurrence just like every murder.
It is irrelevant to the discussion just like stories about adultery would be. This post is about discerning your vocation, living it chastely and being faithful to your vows.
Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

God or the Girl?
Mexican Priest Confesses to Killing Lover
(in TOLUCA, Mexico)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060420/ap_on_re_la_am...--

"If you think it so important to listen to Christ's words, then listen to all of them. Why do you reject what He says through His apostle, Paul, about celibacy being a good thing? Why didn't the Paul get married? Was he disobeying God?"
You can't reject something that is not in the Bible. This was well explained above - kudos!
blink, blink, blink
No, no one explained above that the Pauline Letters are not in the Bible. Please explain it. You will have some difficulty in that the Catholics believe -- the Church told them -- that Paul's letters are

You must read the complete communication between Jesus, the Pharisees and the disciples to realize He is talking about divorce. Do you not see that??
Apparently you have not read the complete communication yourself. After hearing the teaching on divorce, the disciples say not marrying would be better. He tells them "Not all can accept [this] word, but only those to whom that is granted." -- are you trying to say that this applies to the prohibition of divorce he just laid out? Obviously not. Paul recommends celibacy to those to whom that is granted, but prohibits divorce, a prohibition he got from the Lord.

If God called you to be married, He obviously wasn't calling you to be a Franciscan friar any longer.
By this logic, if God called you to be married to Sally, He obviously wasn't calling you to be married to Sue any longer, and we can overlook the prohibitions on divorce.

Dear Bill912: I would prefer that you defend something w/ scripture not books. Thanks!
Posted by: Andrea S. | Apr 19, 2006 7:51:20 AM
Here are your answers Andrea/Jane
Celibacy
Many people outside the church don’t understand priestly celibacy. Apologist and author Dr. Raymond De Souza explains the reason for priestly celibacy as well as sacred scripture to back it up.
http://www.ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/dload1.asp?raf...
Celibacy in the New Testament
In our culture many find no need for celibacy in the single life, in priesthood or even in marriage. Apologist and author Dr. Raymond De Souza explains celibacy and what it means for people, whatever their calling in life may be.
http://www.ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/dload1.asp?raf...
The first audio file is extremely good it provides OT reference which forshadows Jesus Christ / Celibacy and the Priesthood

Amen, MB.
That is why I speak hypothetically, like saying "if someone commits a mortal sin and does not repent they will not be saved." This judges no one, but it is a true statement.

It's Christ's desire that all be saved (1Tim2:1) so to wish and pray for everyone's salvation is a good and holy thing to do. I don't judge anyone, but pray earnestly for everyone to be saved.

Call me untraditional, but somehow I hope that those who reject the Church do not know they are rejecting Christ, with inculpable ignorance, because then there is a chance for their salvation (future conversion asside of course).
Naturally we can not keep people in the dark about the necessity of accepting the Church and all Her teachings. That would not be fair to anyone.

As always the issue is authority. God established His Church with His authority to teach and preach.
I hope everyone who does not hear the Church understands they do not hear Christ and in fact reject Him and God the Father who sent Him.
And one more time Catholic = kata holos according to the whole not what we pick and chose. Heresy comes from the Greek verb to chose.
Take care and God bless,
Inocencio
J+M+J

That's right Tim.
At the same time though, one does not have to be married to discuss the merits of celibacy, any more than one has to be celibate to discuss the merits of marriage.

Wow, I actually made my last post before I knew that I had been accused of being afraid of women!
That's hilarious!
So, "obviously" ANYONE who has " had a relationship w/ a woman" could not possibly accept the teaching of the Church on celibacy... could not possibly hold celibate priests and religious in high regard.
That just reveals SO much.

Julie D, Lynea, Jane-
I am also happily married, for almost 25 years. God called my wife and me to the married life, and has blessed us with children. We have found peace in fulfilling God's vocation for our lives, and in being faithful to our vows.
I'm glad you are happy in the vocation to which God has called you. I am grateful for all good, Christian families.
I am also grateful to God for all those whom He has called to celibacy for the sake of His Kingdom... all priests & religious, brothers and sisters. All are in my prayers.

Lynea, passionately debating theology is one thing, but a low blow like that is another thing. You owe Tim an apology.

"Obviously, Tim, you have not had a relationship w/ a woman. What do you fear?"
Lynea, when you make an adolescent remark you make it hard for adults to take you seriously.

Butch,
How can one renounce marriage (in this context surely meening not marry at all) without being celibate or sinning?

Just remember: It is not the responsibilty of the Church to make sure that any of its members get to heaven; that's our responsibility. It is the responsibility of the Church, through her teachings, to make sure that, if one morning one of her members should wake up in Hell, he won't have to wonder how he got there.

Obviously, Tim, you have not had a relationship w/ a woman. What do you fear?

The Genesis passage gives the origin of the two sexes and of marriage. It does not in any way state that all people are called to marriage. Any honest look at the Mat. passage makes clear that while Jesus was talking about divorce to the Pharisees, the apostles propose it is better not to marry and Jesus responds to that comment.
Stop quoteing and misinterpreting the Bible on a Catholic blog folks. This isn't the place for it. We interprete the Bible in light of the authority of the Church. You interpret it by your own self-proclamed authority. You will get nowhere fast that way.

Jane-Well explained. Tim J-Renouncing marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven does not indicate anywhere to be celibate.

Lynea-
Do I think God would like it if all his followers chose to be celibate? No. Because He has called some to be married (and have kids) and some to be priests and religious.
We need to follow whatever vocation God has for us.
Its all good!

You're right, Tim. The dissenters are covering the same ground over and over. They have had the Church's teachings clearly explained to them, but continue to reject any of those teachings they don't like and try to justify their disobedience and disbelief. We have done our best.

Blessings to all.
I try to live my life by the commandments, Jesus' commandments of LOVE, and the Word of God! I love God w/ my heart, mind, and soul! I try to love my neighbor as myself but, honestly, at times, it is very difficult, but the Lord knows that I am not perfect because there is only 1 perfect being and 1 truth and that is our Lord, Jesus Christ.
God has blessed me w/ a wonderful husband and family. I truly feel blessed and often feel like I'm floating on a cloud, like ecstasy. I can't imagine my life w/out God's blessings and family. I think of the Holy Family as a perfect example of what life is supposed to be and what God wants for us.
I loved what Marie wrote: When a man marries, his rib is returned to him and then he and she are ONE, are whole (see Genesis 2:21-24). This is so beautiful and true!
Blessings,
Julie D.
North Carolina

Jane,
The Church is the Body of Christ.
When you say "The church did this not God", you reveal the depth of your confusion on the role of the Church.
It is Christ who has done this, through His Church.
And in the passage from Matthew, it is after the issue of divorce is settled that the disciples CLEARLY bring up the issue of marrying/not marrying, which Jesus addresses. They are confused, in that they think it "better not to marry".
Jesus says that those who CAN accept this (remaining celibate for the sake of the kingdom) SHOULD accept it. If he were talking about divorce, do you think he was really saying that those who couldn't "accept" his teaching were free to ignore it? "Don't get divorced, unless you find that too hard to accept, in which case you can do what you like"??!?

"BECAUSE THEY HAVE RENOUNCED MARRIAGE FOR THE SAKE OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN."
So everyone renounce marriage, the world ceases to exist in a 100 years, and then the kindom of heaven will come. Do you think Jesus would like this? NO.

MB: If you are really reading the Bible, Matthew does not communicate that. You must read the complete communication between Jesus, the Pharisees and the disciples to realize He is talking about divorce. Do you not see that??
Matthew 19:3-12
3 Some Pharisees approached him, and tested him, saying, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause whatever?"
4 He said in reply, "Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female'
5 and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'?
6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate."
7 They said to him, "Then why did Moses command that the man give the woman a bill of divorce and dismiss (her)?"
8 He said to them, "Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
9 I say to you, 7 whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery."
10 [His] disciples said to him, "If that is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry."
11 He answered, "Not all can accept [this] word, 8 but only those to whom that is granted.
12 Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage 9 for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it."

Butch - I only referenced Isaiah 11:2 as a starting point. Forgive me that I didn't mention the end point as well.

I am now looking around for a suitable burial site for this poor, dead horse we have been flogging.

Posted by: ?????
"If you think it so important to listen to Christ's words, then listen to all of them. Why do you reject what He says through His apostle, Paul, about celibacy being a good thing? Why didn't the Paul get married? Was he disobeying God?"
You can't reject something that is not in the Bible. This was well explained above - kudos!
"Also, why do you reject Jesus' words when he tells Peter "Who's sins you forgive, they are forgiven. Who's sins you retain are retained. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth, will be loosed in heaven.".
I do not dispute that the Church requires confession only one time a year.
"If the successors to Peter and the Apostles (the Pope and the Bishops) bind Catholic priests to celibacy, then they are bound. Your feelings about it (or mine) could not be less relevant."
They are not bound to a rule that is not from God nor in the Bible. It's not God nor Peter that created the rule of celibacy for the priesthood, it was the Church in the 11th century - check your history. The church did this not God.
"Again, if you fail to understand the great gift that God has given His Church through celibacy, then you have my pity and my prayers."
Again, it is not a gift, it is a moral requirement and commandment until you are married, which God wills in creation. You have my pity for not seeing the truth.
"I admire all the young men in this "God or the Girl" show I also think the title is dumb), for their willingness to step out of this sex-obsessed culture long enough to consider a call to the priesthood."
I agree that the title is dumb and untrue.

Jane: "Do you reject Jesus's words? if you reject his words, you reject him!"
Amen sister. Read for the zillionth time what JESUS said in Matthew 19:
12
"Some are incapable of marriage ... BECAUSE THEY HAVE RENOUNCED MARRIAGE FOR THE SAKE OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. WHOEVER CAN ACCEPT THIS OUGHT TO ACCEPT IT."
DOES IT GET ANY CLEARER THAN THAT? What's not to get here ???????
No one is refuting you on any of your scripture passages about the goodness and the will of God in marriage. But can't you see from the above scripture passage that God has another plan for those who can accept renouncing marraige for the sake of the kingdom???
This is not a question of marriage bad/celibacy good, or celibacy bad/marriage good.
It is a question of MARRIAGE GOOD/CELIBACY GOOD -it's whatever is God's will for the person and whom He calls according to His purpose.

The Church Is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic!
The Church is "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone. 10" (Eph. 2:20).
10 [20] Capstone: the Greek can also mean cornerstone or keystone.
Defined: (1) The top stone of a structure or wall. (2) The crowning achievement or final stroke; the culmination or acme.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." (Rev. 22:13)

Posted by: MB | Apr 19, 2006 8:38:32 AM
"Another thing - an analogy for all those who ask why would God ask someone to give up something so innate (sex) to the human condition would be fasting - Christ asked us to fast to grow stronger spiritually. Here is the voluntary renouncing of food which is necessary for our survival - yet Christ requests it of us."
Posted by: MB | Apr 19, 2006 11:25:26 AM
"Yes there are only 2 required days of fasting but Catholics are encouraged to fast during the 40 days of Lent and during Advent as well. We are also encouraged to fast whenever we want to add power to our intercessions and prayers."
SO THERE ARE ONLY 2 DAYS A YEAR TO GIVE UP INNATE SEX AS YOU PUT IT. YIPPIE!

Inocencio-there are 7 if you include verse 3 but MB did not. I don't know what Bible he uses.
New American Bible http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/isaiah/isaiah2.htm
Isaiah 11:2-3
2 The spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him: a spirit of wisdom and of understanding, A spirit of counsel and of strength, a spirit of knowledge and of fear of the LORD,
3 and his delight shall be the fear of the LORD. Not by appearance shall he judge, nor by hearsay shall he decide,