Tridentine Mass Liberalization News/Rumors

by Jimmy Akin on December 14, 2006

in Benedict XVI

Catholic World News reports:

At a December 12 meeting, the Ecclesia Dei commission discussed a papal document that will broaden access to the traditional Latin Mass, Cardinal Jorge Medina Estevez confirmed after the Tuesday-morning session. The Chilean cardinal said that he expects Pope Benedict XVI (bio – news) to release the document in the near future.

Cardinal Medina Estevez, the former prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship, is a member of the Ecclesia Dei Commission, which was set up in 1988 to supervise Vatican relations with traditionalist Catholics. He confirmed that the group’s December 12 meeting was dedicated entirely to a discussion of a papal initiative that will allow more liberal use of the Tridentine rite.

The cardinal told the Roman news agency I Media that the results of today’s discussions would be presented to the Holy Father by Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos (bio – news), the chairman of the Ecclesia Dei commission. He suggested that the Pope might then schedule publication of the document. Cardinal Medina Estevez indicated that he did not anticipate further discussion of the matter by the Ecclesia Dei commission.

Vatican insiders expect that the papal document, widely expected to take the form of a motu proprio, will give priests permission to use the Tridentine rite– the liturgical form used throughout the Roman Catholic Church prior to Vatican II– without requiring the explicit permission of the local bishop.

CHT: Roman Catholic Blog.

MORE . . .

Rorate Caeli, quoting Il Giornale, reports:

Benedict XVI intends to extend the indult of his predecessor, in fact withdrawing from the bishops discretionary power on the matter: the Missal of Saint Pius V is no longer abolished, and even if the ordinary Roman Rite is that originated from the post-conciliar liturgical reform, the old one — used by centuries in the Church — can subsist as an "extraordinary rite".

The bishops, therefore, will not be able to deny the ancient mass anymore, but only regulate its eventual celebration, together with the parish priests, harmonising it with the need of the community. The corrections included would have reduced from 50 to 30 the minimal number of faithful who ask for the celebration according to the old rite. As for the readmission of the Lefebvrists, once the rite of Saint Pius V is liberalized, the deal should be easier.

GET THE STORY.
(CHT to the reader who e-mailed!)

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For forty years the post vatican 2 Bishops worldwide have been disobedient to the Popes, WHAT MAKES CATHOLICS THINK POTENTATES LIKE MAHONEY, BROWN, DANEEL AND RETIRED GRAND POOBAH WEAKLAND WOULD NOT CONTINUE TO DISOBEY THE POPE WHEN THE TRIDENTINE DIVINE LITURGY IF FINALLY LIBERATED. Revisionists like Mahoney and Ricard yearn for a vatican 3 to cement the protestant revolution called vatican 2.

MORE UPDATE RE: THE MOTU PROPRIO
Tridentine Mass: Pope looks for bridge to tradition
Whether I liked or disliked, agreed or disagreed with some of the sometimes antics and aberrations of Pope John Paul 2 or those that came before him such as the dragonian pope of modernity and humanism Paul 6th or loveable & manipulated John 23. The facts are out there since the close of Vatican 2 the so-called liberal elements in the Catholic church have wrought horrendous havoc on the Catholic Church. With the obvius exception of the Traditional-Orthodox elements in the church all indicators are negative, vocations to religious orders down, priesthood vocations down, homo/hetero pedophilia way up, the mass watered down to an excecise in lutheranism and as a result literally millions have abandon the Roman Catholic Church since Vatican 2 NEVER to return. Orthodoxy and Traditionalism is on the asendancy in the Catholic church since the death of John Paul 2 and tremendous growth is occurring amoung Catholic youth in their quest for a return to the Ancient Mass of Pius V an end to the sacriledges committed daily in the novus ordo,priestly abuse of our youth and the abuses committed by liberal bishops, priests and cardinals. FOLKS IT'S NO LONGER A SIN TO BE A TRADITIONAL-ORTHODOX LATIN RITE CATHOLIC REGARDLESS OF THE BAD OLE DAYS HANGERS ON like Daneel, Ricard, Lustiger, Tod Brown and Roger Mahoney. Shalom

Have nothing to do with the subject matter of this blog I would like to say that with the slow but steady return of the Classic Mass of St. Pius V and the steady increase in Catholic youth becoming attached to the Ancient Liturgy, I, a convert to the Ancient Catholic-Christian faith from a Baptist/anglican background have started to return to attendance at the Sacred Liturgy (which, by the way is very hard to find in the Fiefdoms of Mullah Tod Brown & the Grand Ayatollah Roger Mahoney) here in Southern California. I drifted from and totally ceased attending the Catholic Divine Liturgy as the Pauline/Bugnini service suddenly took a choke hold on catholic parishes worldwide.As i saw the Catholic mass of Paul 6 becoming more and more like the schismatic/heretical Protestant church i had just left, as i witnessed countless aberrations and abuses by bishops, Priest and the laity in the "revised post-vatican 2 mass (service) I eventually not only ceased any interest whatsoever in the "new mass" but anything the catholic Church had to say morally or metaphysically.I felt completely betrayed by the Novus Ordo church and in disgust and anger I left as did millions of other former Catholics worldwide.I have returned and NEVER will I be casual about the Mass again and as I grow in understanding the Divine Liturgy I am beginning to mature to Gods plan of salvation and that salvation rests in the Sacred Divine liturgy we call rightly or wrongly the Tridentine Mass. I care less if I attend a SSPX or FSSP or Christ the king souvereign Priest or even a sedevacantist parish (althoughI I do not adhere to sedevacantism) it matters not as long as I with the Priest and congregation kneel in adoration, supplication and penitant toward my God in the Tabernacle and kneel in awe to recieve that REAL PRESENCE. Shalom-Pacem

That is not one language.
That is more than one.
My guess is:
And as this is, them be friend and work "celar!
Anon what is this?

Ah--
"Nunca desanime!"
:)

Disanimate was not the word.
Discourage is.

And Esau,
Samson fell because he put himself in occasions for sin.
Play with fire you get burned.
The same in your senario.
If I would have felt those illicit pleasures,
certainly, I would fall like a fool.
I have enough temptions at this age, and my current educational environment.
No need to dogde bullets and then get a gun and pull the trigger.
What it seems to me though, Esau, is that you might need to check your conscience.
You speak with a passion about the Church.
You are failing in starting a family(from what I infer from your posts. No insults intended)
You are maybe barking up the wrong tree.
God can help prevent certain stupidities on our part.
Are you sure He isn't making sure you know your true vocation?
(and this is just infernce, which can only go so far in this blog. And one more thing:)
"Burn what you have adored and adore what you have burned."
No romanticism or what could have been's.
We are born for heroism and not small horizons.
The toughest times of the Church have made the greatest of saints.

It is a word in english right?
I'm not sure. At least, I doubt it conveys the meaning you intended. What was the portugese?

It is a word in english right?
That was a translation from portugese.

(Sorry Some Day -- I didn't mean to detract from your post -- I just found the term "disanimate" humorous).

God be with you, then, Some Day if that's how strong your convictions are (and, above all, your 'calling'), then may God guide you then.
It's just that if you have never felt the sensual warmth of a woman's embrace, the passionate intimacy that comes with being with the right woman, if you suddenly were to experience this for the first time --
Put it this way, I hope God may give you the strength to resist the temptation should you actually encounter an episode if and when you do become a priest.
I'm sure that if your convictions remain as strong, God will help you find a way.
Again, I'm just hoping that you remain strong.
There are ladies out there that even someone as strong as Samson couldn't resist and, unfortunately, with all the skimpy outfits most girls wear to Mass these days, such occasions for sinful thought can arise even there.

Disanimate, never!
I hate it when I disanimate. It usually prevents me from hiking.
Last time, I had to wait around all day until a cute girl with a little dog came by and oiled my joints. Then this wicked witch starting chasing us down the nearby yellow brick road. It became this whole thing about a wizard and something about Kansas...I won't get into it.

Um Esau,
I thought I told you what my convictions are.
If you are sure that gravity exists, you won't jump off a building. If you know fire burns, is there any need to test it with yourself?
It is not my vocation. The religious life is.
And anyways, the Mother Church is wise.
I am going to the Minor Seminary, and then I also must start the Noviciate.
Remember I must prove to the Church that this is my vocation. How can you do that if you aren't certain.
Trust me, I lived and STILL live in contact with the world. But I won't let myself get dirty and offend God by saying no to His hand and what He offers and say I want something else, something inferior to what he asks.
Advance always, retreat never! Disanimate, never!
If I am not true to my convictions, then I am true to my passions.

But she does like hiking ;)
He sure does.

We're cross posting, here.
No problem, Smoky. I wasn't ticked at you, but at someone ELSE that I believe has been posting in other people's names.
Your point about the e-mail tags is well taken!

Then remember what I said before.
He waits in the confessional, because it is not the ruin of a man who forgives you...it is Him.
It would make me very happy to hear you return to the Mother Church. I will certainly pray for you.

Actually, Some Day, to segue off something Tim J. said in his post above --
I know that many might put me down for doing this -- and I don't exactly know if I'm actually going against God's will by my saying it -- but have you ever had a girlfriend?
It's just that you're too young (at least, in my opinion) and seemingly too naive to enter into a Major Seminary.
I just don't want you to enter for what might be the wrong reasons or worse, disillusionment.
I don't mind if people might become upset by my actually saying this. It's certainly understandable.
But if you never had a girlfriend, you might actually regret having entered the seminary, proceeding into the priesthood and, then, during your time as clergy, you end up meeting a girl who starts being the world to you -- you might end up regretting your actions and, in fact, become hostile to the Church for something you had decided.

It would help to remember that as you are typing an angry response, the other commenter might be writing an apology.
Refresh: ctrl + r

Hey Smoky,
have you considered coming back to the Church?
Of course I've considered it -- I consider it often. Why do you think I read this blog?

What must it be like to have nothing better to do than post on blogs you don't like, in other people's names, just to cause a little confusion and get a giggle?
Um. I posted on a blog I do like (where'd you get the idea I don't?), in your name once to make a point -- not to cause confusion.
Sheesh.

Incidentally, Smoky (if I may call you Smoky), my comment about being sad was aimed at our earlier anonymous poster, not you.
From what I can tell, you are not pathetic.

Or better yet lets just stop fighting over byzantine arguements.

Hey Anon,
Discredit one statement I have ever made that I have never corrected myself.
At least let your yes be yes and your no be no and post your handle.

How was it an insult? All I did was make a point by showing rather than telling...I see nothing wrong with that, especially because
1.) It was clear in my "Tim J" post that I wasn't pretending to be Tim J
2.) I immediately posted under my real handle and took credit for the "Tim J" post.
It's no different than if you suggested a brand new lock and key system, and I showed you how I could get around it. I'd hope you would want me to point that out.

You know, we got a bad habit of fighting on old posts.
Its got to stop. But, I'll stop when the ones who say stupidities stop, as lies should not get the last post.

Not an insult, at all. Just an observation. What must it be like to have nothing better to do than post on blogs you don't like, in other people's names, just to cause a little confusion and get a giggle?
It's depressing to imagine.
You should get out more.

Hey Smoky,
have you considered coming back to the Church?
Remember, we don't live forever, but we can go whenever.

Thanks for the insult, though.
Uhhh... Smoky... Don't you think what you did to Tim J. by assuming his name came off as an insult as well?

Well, when your circles are more international in nature, you tend to know more things than local folk. And somethings are also vocational.
I don't expect a simple, pious poor man to know much about great theological things.
The same applies to what you are called to do.
The religious, and certainly among sui generes orders and institutes know things more than the typical, and even many times learned Catholics.
Take the Jesuits. They know a lot of stuff.
Maybe for the wrong reasons. (opps did I say that...)
But they know.
And information is easily passed these days.
And for you skeptics, you don't have to be the CIA to know certain things.
See many things are not secrets, but simply as I said, silenced matters.
And I just so happen to know some of those people who are in the know.
And I am not bragging. Many others are friends with Vatican insiders. Whispers in the Loggia blog, I am told, has some good friends in Rome.

Wow. This is what you do for recreation?
It must be sad to have no life.
Tired of World of Warcraft?
Are you referencing me? I was just making a point -- email tags won't do any good to prevent impersonation.
Thanks for the insult, though.

Wow. This is what you do for recreation?
It must be sad to have no life.
Tired of World of Warcraft?

Oh man Tim J.
Whoever that is, got you good and maybe he is right. But then, the solution is not adding more rules. It is making the orginal ones followed.

The last "Tim J" post was mine.

Actually, Some Day:
Anon has a point -- just what did you exactly mean by the comment Anon referenced from you in his link?
What's this supposed personal connection you have with the Vatican?

Tim J.,
You can tell my posts are characteristically mine.
As for one thing I found strange is the Esau responded the "homo" commenter with the same insult and called him a homo as well.
I guess its not that bad.

E-mail tags form now on would help to assure the identitiy of the sender.
Not really -- because I can still easily pretend to be you, Tim.
What this blog really needs is membership -- you sign up before posting, providing a password, and therefore ensure that "Tim J" is really "Tim J".

A comma indicates pause...
So what is wrong with putting a comma?
There are rules in English grammar that determine where a comma can and cannot go.

Almost all the above are bogus posts. Don't count on any of them being sent by the JA.O regulars we all know.
E-mail tags form now on would help to assure the identitiy of the sender.
Jimmy's blog has attracted a punk troll.

But instead of thinking bad about me, who as horrible as I might be
Some Day:
Good Going!
Keep up the Catholic virtue and humility especially in the face of such evil villains like these and don't sink to their level!
The same gross evil that has afflicted the Church and the innocent victims out there through such twisted deviants are the very same that inspire folks like John and Anon to do what they do.

But instead of thinking bad about me, who as horrible as I might be, have never given reason to think such things in my posts look what I found at RC blog about John( sorry if you think it is mudslinging, but it confirms many suspicions)
-----------------------------------------------
More do nothing by a do nothing, liberal, Vatican II loving church that could care less about faith and morals
So sad, leave it up to these horribly Bishops and Priests.
Another shameful act. The only solution now does seem to be SSPX, SSPV and other traditional groups who at least have the guts to do what is correct even in the face of ridicule. My in laws and cousins are correct, the church is in eclipse
Posted by: John | Wednesday, March 14, 2007 at 05:48 PM
-----------------------------------------
That is some bad stuff John. You like spiting on this blog and on others.

not regarding Deep Dark Secrets That None Save High Prelates And 17 Year Old Commenters Know
Ewwww!
Anon, you actually go for 17 year old boys?
Bad enough you're a homo and now this?
I need to call DATELINE!

Hmm anon, I do have a question...
A comma indicates pause...
So what is wrong with putting a comma?
Unless, I am wrong in writting how I would say it.

Based on this and my above comment, I would propose that Some Day and Elias are one in the same.
Based on your and John's comments, I'd say since both of you are so obssessed with homo priests, both of you are hiding something in the closet!
That's my analysis!

And I surely did not write under Anon is Homo.
Now if you think Elias Xavier is my name, sorry, your wrong. I have posted it sometimes.
AND I have emailed Mr. Jimmy with my name.
(Anon is Homo is uncalled for and nasty)

Sorry ain't me.
The other names I have ever used was In Corde Jesu when I first started bloging, and John Redcorn when I wanted to say something potentially stupid. Like make fun of some idiot.
And I have not used In Corde Jesu in this blog.
And John Redcorn is some guy from King of the Hill, which is retarded. I don't even know why I used it.

Sorry ain't me.
The other names I have ever used was In Corde Jesu when I first started bloging, and John Redcorn when I wanted to say something potentially stupid. Like make fun of some idiot.
And I have not used In Corde Jesu in this blog.
And John Redcorn is some guy from King of the Hill, which is retarded. I don't even know why I used it.

Not that I want to take the side of John, but how would a kid like Some Day find out about Deep Dark Secrets That Only The Chosen Few Know In The Church?
Why Anon?
Are you and John going to finally tell us how much you and him engage in homosexual activities any time soon?
John, does your wife even know?
You both are so obsessed with the topic of homo priests that me thinks doth protest too much!
"John and Anon sitting on a tree!"

If he knew, maybe others know alot too.
Just that is a very touchy subject.
One kept under a nearly perfect silence.
And remember, not all knowledge is for us old ones. Some saints faught battles only the ones around them knew about. Maybe there are some saints out their fighing the evils of today, that few know about. The problem is most are like john nova, they are skeptics.
I certainly don't know as much as I would like.

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