P.S. I almost forgot. About driving in Los Angeles. With a rosary hanging from my rear view mirror, I kinda have to behave, but if it gets really bad, I grab the cross on the end and pray to the offending driver or drivers, "Please go to heaven, please go to heaven, please go to heaven NOW."
I know, I know. I ain't what I oughta be, but I'm better than I usta be.
P.S.S. If anyone who wants a rosary CD is cash strapped or just plain frugal, you can get them for free (well, a donation is suggested) on the Catholicity web site. It isn't very fancy, but the voices feature one gal with an Irish accent (sweet) and children (sweet, but not sacharine.) I like that it has the Fatima prayer, and the price is right. I order a slew and give 'em away as gifts to PCs (Potential Converts) and PRCs (Potential Returning Catholics) who show even a smidge of interest.
Totus tuus,
LL

Tim and all,
Thank you for all your posts. In addition to practicing many of the ideas posted, I have a prayer list listing all the people (in alphabetical order)I'm praying for, with copies in my wallet, car, on the refrigerator and bathroom mirror. It is especially fun to ask a Protestant who is experiencing problems, "Do you mind if I say a novena for you? People have told me it helps." Then I whip out my list and add their name to the proper letter of the alphabet.
Also, about hymns. Someone wrote into the Magnificat a few months ago that if he doesn't know the tune of the LOTH hymn, he tries to fit it to something easy and familiar like "Jesus Loves Me" or "Yankee Doodle." Try it, I swear it makes JMJ laugh to hear my hymn singing.
Finally, I've devised something I call the yogarosary...is that too controversial to discuss here? I got the idea from Therese Borchard...
Totus tuus,
Lynn, the 2002 grateful RCIA convert

+ JMJ +
One thing that I've been stuggling with--while there are many really good options on personal prayer, I tend to make the practice about my preferences and not what God knows is best for me. For example, the Holy Rosary is easy and offers spiritual consolation. The Little Office of the BVM, on the other hand, is hard for me on the bus/Metro and I often wonder if I'm actually lifting my heart and mind to God at all. After almost a year, though, it seems that the hardest prayer has helped me cooperate with God's grace more than I could have ever expected. I have to tell myself repeatedly, "this is my love song to God" and constantly pull my mind back to the psalms but my heart and mind do stay more focused on the divine and on the souls of others the rest of the day.
For what it's worth.
In Christ,

I love the rosary, but I wouldn't dream of praying while I'm driving. I have enough trouble *driving* while I'm driving.
I learned from a dear friend, since deceased, the joys of "just talking to God". She came as close as anyone I know to "praying without ceasing", simply by telling Him everything. (Even I can do that while I'm driving. Except when it's snowing. Or after dark. Or in heavy traffic....I mostly grab the occasional plea to "just let me get home in one piece, & I'll pray then"; which also works...).

Memphis Aggie,
Living in Memphis myself, I know very well how relevant that prayer is to our traffic situation!

I know I drive a little better while saying a prayer that ends in " ... at the hour of our death" 53 times

Tim, I'm a morning person who can only really get Quality Prayer Time in the evening. I think there's a difference between that & prayers done while I'm driving, walking etc. I know God can hear me no matter what I'm doing but I can hear him better if I not otherwise occupied and, you're right, at night when the house is finally quiet seems to be the best time for that.

I can identify completely.
I know a few people that pray the Rosary in the car and have been meaning to get it on cd to stay more focused.
I wonder what Mary would think about us all in our cars saying the Rosary?? The car is a great place to pray whether moving or not. And I would like to think there will be less road rage if we are spreading the prayer on the highways as we travel. I just know I arrive in better spirits when I say it.
Pray without ceasing, indeed.

I try to pray the Morning and Evening prayers on my iPod, either in the car or on the desktop as I get the babes ready for school. I also have Rosary Army on standby as I need it, as well as a slew of other Catholic podcasts. With my Schedule, the kids, and my attention span, this works well for me. Pax!

My mother taught me as a young child, that when saying the Rosary at night in bed, to include my Guardian Angel so that he would complete it should I fall asleep before finishing. I still do that today, and I've crested 40.

My mother taught me as a young child, that when saying the Rosary at night in bed, to include my Guardian Angel so that he would complete it should I fall asleep before finishing. I still do that today, and I've crested 40.

Tim, great post.
Since I don't have young children to get ready in the morning, I'm consistent with Morning Prayer and the local Catholic radio station has 5 decades of the rosary at 7pm. I've been working at including the day's reading before Lauds.
Those are the "regularly scheduled" times, but I like someone above, also say a prayer when I hear a siren or bad news or a rosary commuting.
Hymns are a wonderful suggestion. Chant is also a good way to start the day. Wasn't there a CD put together by some monks?

Tim, thanks for the great post. I had a priest tell me once that praying in the car "doesn't count." But the 30 minute commute was all the time I had. I was convinced it was ok when I prayed the novena to St. Therese of Lisieux and received a wonderful grace-filled answer to my prayer. When my mind wanders or I am interrupted I am reminded of C.S. Lewis saying that it isn't how you feel about your prayer that matters, it's doing it no matter what that is an act of faith and love. (my paraphrase)

Morning all the way - I am that rare creature a true morning person. I go to work very early and park a distance away. While I walk, I say some prayers. When I read an article that touches me or scares me or makes me wonder about the fate of mankind, I say a prayer. I pray when I hear a siren, I pray when I'm stuck in traffic. I've been wanting to pray the Angelus, but I need the bells to remind me.....maybe I can get a watch that will chime?

This is awesome! I love all the ideas everyone posted, especially hymns. A friend of mine from my old church (Church of the Nazarene) used to talk about meditating on hymns. Like 4ddintx, I don't know many Catholic hymns, either, and my parish uses mostly contemporary music. We bought a CD of classic Catholic hymns in Latin (Tantum Ergo, Ave Maria, etc) but the CD player in the van ate it. I'll have to try singing hymns in the morning to get rid of cranky moods. Everyone is cranky in the morning at our house, especially ME! I try to pray the morning offering as I'm struggling to keep my eyes open and not roll over and go back to sleep, and I TRY to remember to "offer up" my frustrations as they occur during the day. Does anyone else do that? Yet another awesome thing about Catholic life that this former Nazarene is happy, along with LOTH, Adoration, the Rosary, and the Eucharist, to discover. It's interesting when I remember that what started my husband and I on the road to the Catholic church was a plea to God to teach us how to pray more deeply!
Keep the faith, finish the race. Blessings on your day, everyone!

Deanswife, I love the idea of hymns. Most of the hymns I have memorized aren't very Catholic (I grew up Pentecostal), so there is lots of room for growth for me in that area. Monica, anything that helps with cranky morning moods is something to invest time in! That's a great encouragement to add more "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs" to our day.
I have the Christian Prayer (the one book version of the LOTH that has morning and evening prayer plus compline) and hope to get back to it someday. I find it too hard to nurse a baby and flip around in the book the way I'm supposed to. So, until this season passes I do more mental prayer and rosaries (usually counting on my fingers so I can pray it when I have a few spare minutes).
I'm enjoying all the comments on this post!

deanswife, I forgot about the hymns! I used to use them instead of grace for breakfast, and it got them out of their cranky moods and ready for the day. It was almost miraculous how it transformed the mood every morning. I'll resurrect that habit again.

I love this! What a great post, Tim.. now I know I'm not the only one who falls asleep with Mary (in the Rosary, that is), balances a spiritual book on the baby while I'm nursing, or has an easier time saying (and thinking) the Rosary in the car. I can add only two things:
Memorizing hymns to sing when I am either
a)too busy for morning prayer (crying children!)
b)washing the dishes or something else that keeps my hands and eyeballs occupied
c)when I'm so freaked out I can't even think
I take used Missalettes from the Church when they're about to expire for this purpose.
Two, I found the Shorter Christian Prayer to be the best form of LOTH for me at this time. It's still intimidating for the neophyte, but the learning curve is much shorter and it takes much less time--Maybe 15 minutes in the morning and 10 at night (not that I do it every day like clockwork! LOL) Plus the added bonus of SCP is you get a lot of repeat scriptures...great fodder for memorization, so you can be going through your day and suddenly a passage from a psalm will grip your brain. Just .02 from a busy housewife, I'd love to do more, but we'll have to see....

I used to have trouble setting aside time to pray during the day, as well. I'd usually try to do something during Lent but then I'd backslide once we got past Easter. I have a CD I leave in my car with the rosary, Divine Mercy, morning offering, and a couple other things that I use during my daily commute. I'm not an easily angered driver but the parts of my brain that aren't keeping the car on the road do easily get distracted from my rosary; I'm frustrated when I'm reminded, like Memphis Aggie said, that I don't pray perfectly, but I try to remind myself to be grateful for the reminder that I've got room to grow.
Bonaventure's words give me pause. My work commute is a little over half a rosary long, so I'd get through three decades on the way there and finish it (sometimes with time for the Divine Mercy) on the way back. I never gave splitting it up a second thought after hearing so much about people trying to fit individual decades--often in the course of trying to do all 15 or 20 mysteries--anywhere they can into a busy day.
I'd like to discipline myself to spend more time exclusively in prayer, but until I get to that point, I just try to pray interstitially when I'm not on the rosary. Sometimes it's just kind of like having a prayer soundtrack in my head, which may be a little weak, but it seems a better use of extra thinking capacity when I'm washing my hands or scraping my car.

Your remark about sudden interjections into prayer reminded me of a passage from Bonaventure, kindly translated by Michael Sullivan:
"There is an interjection, when in the midst [of the rite] falls some act, such as a sneeze or a word, for instance: 'In the name of the Father, and--this water is cold!--and of the Son', etc. --And that this does not impede [the validity of the sacrament] is clear, because the whole [form] is preserved when something is interjected; and some men are so oblivious that they always interject something before they can finish a speech they've started."
and further:
"To the objection about interjection or intermission, it should be said that there is a kind of intermission which interrupts the intention [of the rite] and makes a long delay, as if [the priest] were to make a long speech or leave to urinate; and then it would be necessary for him to start over. But if there intervenes [in the performance of the baptism] a small delay from forgetfulness or a sneeze, the act is not interrupted, nor does it need to be started over."

Sorry to interrupt. Has anyone had problems posting, lately? Someone wanted links to free Bible software in another post and typepad would not let me post (saying it was spam). I thought I filled in the anti-spam box correctly.

I find I'm to tired at night to really pray well or I get too caught up in getting things done around the house. So I pray in the morning. I wake and praise God for a minunte or so in bed. Get up and stretch so that I am awake for prayer. Do morning prayer (Liturgy of the Hours) and then 30 minutes of meditation.

You betcha.

Hey ya'll
I could really use some praying power about now for a special intention. thanx

Although I have the Horae (both the Benedictine version and the Official Church), it's nice to have internet/electronic versions (pocket/desktop) of it like the one at:
Link:
Liturgy of the Hours

Thanks for the awesome post. Funny, I've really been finding my way with this whole issue as well.
One small thing I'm trying to incorporate is a examination of conscience in the evening. I have a little note pad by my bed. Plus, I've adopted a practice of writing ordinary/neutral words that would allow me to remember the particular sin and its context--also, this
allows a record of sins that is only decipherable by me.

I like using the Rosary Army's scriptural Rosary MP3's driving to work. It helps to keep me on track. Since between every Hail Mary you get a snippet of scripture which keeps your mind focused on the current mystery, even if you occasionally have to mumble to the other drivers on the road.

Rob, you needn't have elaborated much beyond "We have a 7 month old"...
That says it all.
God be with you and your family.

Daily Mass beat daily prayer - good for you Rob

I'm looking again for a way. I used to have it pretty sweet, though.
I live 1 Rosary away from my work at a Catholic hospital. So, I used to walk to work every day at 5:30 and say the Rosary. My rout led me down sleepy residential streets and the through city park. At 6 am I was in the chapel and would pray the Divine Office. By 6:30 I’m in the staff lounge having my coffee. The chapel is unlocked at 5:30. It was very nice.
Then my job changed and I now go to work FOR 5:30 so I can get home for 2:30. My wife and I switch off the parenting and she heads off to her part time job while I watch the kids. We’re saving a wheelbarrow of $ on not paying for daycare. Getting up at 4:30 is just too hard to walk in and besides, I need to get home fast so my wife can get to work on time. So I take the car, which is a 5 – 10 min drive. I need to get several ducks in a row in my current job before the rest of Surgery shows up to start the day. It’s just SO much easier to get them done before anyone else is around. My mornings are not too busy to concentrate on prayer.
We have a 7 month old so evening prayer is out. Mr. Mom starts the evening routine of supper, bath & bed at 5. By the time my day is done, it’s past 8 and I am too tired to pray! I tried to say the Rosary last night while rocking the baby and fell asleep myself.
I am very fortunate to be able to go to Mass every day. I’d love to pray the Divine Office like I used to, but for now, I’m need to be content with whistling hymns.

Cool! A chance to talk about myself!
I have started a new regimen in the last few months. I start praying in the morning only after I have had a shower, that way I'm awake. Sometimes I do some squats and pushups before starting, which gets the blood going.
I have been reading a passage each day from St. Thomas More's book "The Sadness of Christ" (written while he was a prisoner in the Tower of London). This takes about 7.5 minutes, then I do mental prayer for about another 7.5 minutes, then eat breakfast.
In the evening, I try to spend about 15 minutes each day reading a chapter of the Bible. I recently acquired a Douay-Rheims. It's not that I think this is the "only Bible for Catholics" or anything. But I think the slightly unfamiliar language helps me really think about what it's saying. Besides, I love the fact that it was translated by English priests in exile during a time of persecution. I then read the same chapter in the Ronald Knox translation, which reads wonderfully and often illuminates what I read in the Douay. Then a few minutes of mental prayer before bed.
By the way, St. Francis de Sales book "Introduction to the Devout Life" has some very, very helpful advice on methods of prayer.
Mraz, I have the same issue with finding time to pray together with the wife and kids.
Dan, I'm going to check out the Divine Office at Angelus Press.
And Brian, I like the idea of a small altar in the room to pray at.
Thanks!

I've always had a hard time setting apart a chunk of time for prayer every day. One thing that I've recently done that's helped me is I turned my nightstand into a little altar so now I have a place to pray. It's nothing fancy, I just covered the nightstand with a white cloth and have a small crucifix on the wall so it's at my eye level while kneeling. I keep my bible always out on the nightstand with a candle which I light when I'm reading it. I also keep a picture of the sacred heart of Jesus, a small statue of Mary and a rosary on the nightstand.
I find that helps a lot, especially because our bedroom is usually empty until bedtime so if I have some free time that's the best room to use to get away from the TV and whatever else is going on. And it helps me to stay focused because I'm surrounded by images of Jesus and Mary. Plus I suppose it kind of has the same type of guilt factor as a treadmill that's only used as a clothes rack - if I don't pray it's staring at me reminding me. I still make up way too many excuses to skip prayer, but having a place set aside for prayer has helped.

i think Fr. Levis once said, the only bad Rosary is the one that is'nt said.
i believe the same with prayer.

I use to wait until the last minute to get up, but for the past four years or so I've forced myself to get up half an hour earlier so that I could do Morning Prayer from the office. I also do Night Prayer, every night before going to sleep.
I want to do Evening Prayer too, but that's harder. It seems that I always seem to be doing something else in the evening. I'm trying to commit myself to actually doing it this advent.
For fathers day last year my wife gave me a cover for my Christian Prayer book, so now I can keep it in my messenger bag without worrying about it getting beat up. So now I really don't have an excuse about not doing Evening Prayer just because I'm not home.
I'm working on it.
I always have my Rosary with me. I'm a Knight and have a nice one with the crest of the Kinghts of Columbus on the reverse of the medallion. I could probably pray it more.

Now, the point of this practice is to pray without ceasing. Eventually one will pray automatically without any effort.
Only to be undertaken with the supervision of a Spiritual Director!

You can always do what is done in the East.
"Lord Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner."
Do that 12,000 times per day and you just may glow like the sun!
Slavonic:
Господи Ісусе Христе Сыне Божїй помилѹй мѧ грѣшнаго.
Greek:
Κύριε Ἰησοῦ Χριστέ, Υἱέ τοῦ Θεοῦ, ἐλέησόν με τὸν ἁμαρτωλόν
And of course, for you RadTrads, Latin:
Domine Iesu Christe, Filii Dei, miserere mei, peccatoris.

What I do is pray Prime, first thing in the morning. I have the Office lying on my nightstand and first thing upon arising I pray the Divine Office.
Its an awesome way to begin the day with the prayer of the Church.
I also pray Sext at Midday and Compline before going to bed and after our rosary.
Praying the Divine Office is the way to sanctify time.
Angelus Press has a great Divine Office for the layman. It includes Prime, Sext and Compline for Monday through Saturday and it has Lauds and Vespers, along with the other parts for Sunday.
God bless you.

"I also like what people like Holly Pierlot (author of A Mother's Rule of Life) and others have said about "active contemplation".... making everything you do during the day a gift of love to God, contemplating God while you are busy about your day."
That, I feel would be the most perfect prayer, and is probably what St. Paul had in mind when he encouraged us to "Pray without ceasing".

Tim, I feel for you. I'm not a morning person, either, but I am forced to be up at 6 am to get my first-grader ready for school. I find that mumbling a prayer while struggling to keep my eyes open helps to keep me from yielding to the temptation to lie back down and go back to sleep. I think you are doing a great job finding better times for you to pray. It IS about becoming closer to God. I also like what people like Holly Pierlot (author of A Mother's Rule of Life) and others have said about "active contemplation".... making everything you do during the day a gift of love to God, contemplating God while you are busy about your day. Talk about continuous prayer! I had always wondered how to fulfill the "pray continually" part of Scripture! And to Monica and the other moms who responded.... Amen!! I too have felt guilty about not being one of those perfectly-together up at 5 and at 6:30 Mass homeschool mom of nine types. I'm a new Catholic still trying to get a handle on the Catholic stuff, with four young children and I DON"T homeschool or have any desire to, and I find it extremely difficult to function before 7 am,even though I spend 6 to 7 am fixing breakfast and herding my eldest toward the school bus. I pray through the day, and try to pray with my husband after the kids are in bed, but that's when he's falling asleep, since he's one of those up at 4:30 daily Mass at 7 types. I also do one hour a week of Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament... truly a blessing to this mom to have some peace and quiet to be physically and spiritually with my Lord! All that to say to everyone.... do what works for you as long as you pray sometime. God sees the heart. Blessings on your day!

I'm a bit like Tim, in that I try to pray during my commute. I pray the Liturgy of the Hours on the bus, first thing. But I also struggle to find more solemn times and setting to pray.

Tim,
Try the Divine Mercy Chaplet. I do it on the way home - it's shorter, simpler and really helpful in traffic jams.

Bearing, I'm the opposite. I love everything Marian, but find the LOTH stiff - maybe I should read more about it. I also will admit to not liking Latin. I don't like not knowing what's said and I'm poor at foreign languages. Gregorian chant is the exception - it's simply beautiful. I'm glad it's a big Church, rich in modes of worship.

I don't use a Rosary at all when I pray while driving. I just keep count on my fingertips. I don't find it has any effect on my alertness to traffic, etc...
If I lose my place, I don't sweat it. God sees the heart.

Although intellectually, I know I should be starting the day with prayer, I often find that there's some time during the day that just happens to open up - and that's decision time: do I surf the web, read a book, check email, or do I actually remember to say a quick prayer in that time?
Thankfully, I've got my daughters who remind all of us to say prayers before eating a meal and my wife to remind me to say prayers before I nod off at night. My wife has actually taken to turning on EWTN in the morning when we are all eating breakfast, because that's the same time that Fr. Mitch Pacwa's rosary comes on.
Just my $0.02

It helped me a great deal to switch from trying to pray the Rosary to trying to pray the Liturgy of the Hours.
Apparently I am not so much a Rosary person. I used to feel bad about that, and then someone pointed out to me that it's not a *requirement* for Catholicism.
I still do pray the Rosary occasionally, when I feel moved to, and that works much better for me than trying to pray it every single day. I think that the variety of the LOTH, and the knowledge that it's the "prayer of the Church" and that I'm praying the same things along with Catholics all over the world, particularly priests and religious, just resonates with me and keeps me "interested" in picking it up each morning to see what I'll discover there.

I have also felt guilty about not praying at the crack of dawn. If I'm up at the crack of dawn it's because I have a little person that is up as well. Lately what is working best for me is to take part or all of naptime in the early afternoon for prayer and Bible reading. At night before bed or while nursing the little one I might read a bit of a spiritual book (currently Fr. Lovasik's _Hidden Power of Kindness_). If naptime doesn't work out because of mopping the floor or some unexpected demand on that time (unfortunately a couple days a week), it's after the kids are all in bed--and I fall asleep in the middle.
I've found that the rosary is great company while trying to settle my littlest one down to sleep. Even punctuated with the occasional "sleepy girls go night night" it's restful for us both and I feel like I'm covering her with prayer at that fragile time between asleep and awake.
Monica, I understand how you feel about the example of other homeschooling families. We're not in the early morning category at our house, either! I try to remember that every task I do for my family with a cheerful heart is a prayer for them. When I do remember this it makes laundry and dishes and cooking a gift to my family and not as much of a chore.

Hi Tim,
I pray the Rosary each morning on the way to work. I use a ring rosary so I can keep my hands on the wheel. I sometime get distracted and vocal - don't sweat it - just go back to where you where or add a prayer for patience. No one prayers perfectly - it's a matter of practice that makes it more natural and it may take months of effort to make it fluid. It took me about 6 months to get a good routine in place and I still drift on occasion.
If you're not a morning person - pray at might before bed. I'm a morning person but by late evening I can barely scrape together the energy for a decent prayer. Use the time when you are most alert. Lunch time is also a nice option.

Jimmy,
Very true in the importance in moving closer and closer to Christ. Before my feet hit the floor it helps me to remember to clothe myself with Christ, Col. 3 "Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity."
Then arm myself, Eph 6, "Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints."
I just pray putting on the pieces. It is all Christ. He is compassion. He is kindness. He is gentleness. etc. He is Truth. He is Salvation. He is Righteousness. He is Peace.
Since I work nights, "sleep" during the day, and we homeschool our 7 kids, it helps me not to get upset with whatever crisis has just happened to wake me. Sadly, my feet hit the floor first too often.
Making the sign of the cross frequently helps me stay in prayer. Even better with holy water.

Tim, I had much the same experience, and it took me years to get over the guilt of staggering around in the morning trying to get my kids up and fed by 9am while the other home schooling moms we at 6:30 am mass with their 9 kids.
My husband and I pray the morning offering before he goes to work, and when I wake up again, much later, I pray from the psalms 'Lord open my lips, and my mouth shall declare your praise' and/or O God, come to my assistance, O Lord make haste to help me. and that's the extent of my morning prayer. I also leave a bible in the bathroom since that is usually the only place I can be without small people poking me in the eye with whatever they want to show me. I get a few psalms in a day this way. We do family prayer in the evening, and I usually fall asleep praying the rosary or Divine Mercy chaplet. I don't do any of it really well, but my day is punctuated with prayer in this manner. Otherwise I try to keep myself mindful of the presence of God, and that's about all I can do presently.

Tim,
I appreciate this post as well! I have done much of the same thing. If it is any consolation, I too am a zombie in the morning, and I'm pretty much worthless for anything for the first 45 minutes, other than drinking coffee and showering.
I have tried praying in the car, also the Rosary (and I still do occasionally), but I can reeeeaaaally relate to the "What ARE you doing?!?" breaking up the prayer. I have found that my rosary ring is much easier to use when driving; I don't lose my place as easily when I have to grab something (like the wheel with both hands!) But mostly I say a short prayer in the morning before I leave for work, various little prayers throughout the day, and try to do my reading, prayers and such after everyone goes to bed as well.
I do like to try to do prayers earlier, so I can include my kids, but that is a rare event, between homework and getting them all to bed!