But, Is It Art? – Abstraction Pt. 1

by Jimmy Akin on February 18, 2008

in Art

Elegytothespanishrepublic_3From Old World Swine, the long-ago promised
conclusion to my "But Is It Art?" series, Part One;

I titled this series "But, Is It Art?" because that was the question I
sought to answer regarding non-representational (purely abstract) art,
like the Robert Motherwell piece at left. My first instinct – my bias
early on – was to say that, no, it wasn’t really art. As I have
explained earlier, I have come to modify that position, and in the
process have come to a new appreciation of abstract art in its proper place.

I’m sure that in part my reaction against abstract art was due to
the particular kind of art education I slogged through as a young man.
The new broom of modernism had swept the academy clean, and it was made
plain again and again that only the dullest sort of hack artist would
bother to paint a straight, traditional portrait, still life or
landscape. The concept of seeking Beauty was actually derided, and one
poor grad student who let the term slip out during a critique was met
with snickers and the shaking of heads. She was done for.

In regard to non-representational art, we were trained not only to
see things that were not there, but to write papers about it… with
footnotes. We were all expected to take seriously the idea that a
canvas with a few lines and blobs of paint on it was as significant and
praiseworthy as Caravaggio’s Crucifixion of St. Peter. Not surprisingly, I don’t recall any student in the MFA program I went through who wasn’t simply adrift
as an artist. There was no sense of connection with history or
tradition beyond the last 100 years, or so, and indeed little sense of
connection even with one another. There was very little in the way of
technical help or instruction, and even less in terms of personal
artistic development, no cohesive approach or philosophy – no rules,
except "There are no rules". We were all making it up as we went along,
with more or less success.

It took quite a while for me to begin to see past this, to gain some
perspective. When I at last reached a point where I decided it was just
a matter of plain sanity to prefer beauty to ugliness or meaning to
emptiness, I was no longer painting at all, but was doing design and
illustration. It was no doubt due to my embrace of historical, orthodox
Christianity and the influence of writers like Tolkien, Chesterton and
C.S. Lewis that I came to think about the mystery of beauty at all. In
my new enthusiasm for tradition, meaning and beauty, I turned smartly
on my heels and completely dismissed non-objective art as a fraud and
the last refuge of talentless duffers.

But I digress.

In my next post I will give what I consider to be the strengths of
modern abstraction and talk about in what contexts and in what ways I
believe it does function well. In this post, though, I will
focus on why I believe non-objective art can not be placed in the same
category as the truly great works of art history.

Art is one of those magical, mysterious things – like writing and
music – that only humans do. It sets us apart from the animal world by
a gulf that is incomprehensibly wide.

There are two things – two fundamentally mysterious and magical
things – that traditional representational art does that
non-representational art does not do. The first is the most obvious;
representational art, well, represents something. It calls to
mind something that is not there, or that never existed except in the
imagination of the artist. It communicates symbolically in a way
analogous to writing. Writing is just ink on a page, figures of varied
kinds that we string together to make words, and then sentences and
presently we are drawn into a world, with its own people and events…
we are with Frodo and Sam on the slopes of Mount Doom, or tied to the
mast with Odysseus.  One undeniable mystery of visual art is this power
to symbolically represent things that are not really there. It’s
something we may not often think about (because we are too busy doing
it), but the fact that I can draw a few lines and make you think of a
goat or a sailing ship is just indescribably awesome. It’s something
only we humans do… even cavemen knew that.

The second mysterious thing that traditional representational art often does can be related to the first, but they are not the
same; this is the breaking of the "picture plane", or the property of
taking the viewer past the surface of the painting and into an illusory
space. One can represent an object in a very flat and abstract way
(again, think of cave painting or modern road signs), but the ability
of the artist to create a believable space, with its own sense of
light, atmosphere and perspective adds a dimension to the experience
that is, again, powerful and mysterious. It gives the viewer the
sensation that they could reach past the frame and into the painting.
Most often they see past  the surface of the picture without thinking about it. That’s magic. Alice through the looking glass.

These two properties are so fundamental and potent that they could very nearly be the definition of what fine visual art really is.
Without them, what is left are the merely formal aspects of visual
art… composition, color harmony, texture, etc… all important
things, but by themselves inadequate to move the viewer in anything like the way representational art can.

Now, there is a line of thought that holds that symbolic
representation and the illusion of form and space are irrelevant to the
appreciation of visual art, or even that such things get in the way,
which to me is exactly like saying "That could have been a great novel,
if not for all those characters, locations and plot developments
getting in the way", as if the true essence of a novel were in formal
concepts like "paragraphs" or "grammar".

The formal aspects of art are very significant, and can be
appreciated and admired for their own strengths, but there’s one
problem with that way of thinking; every great novel and every great
work of art possesses these formal strengths and uses them to great
effect anyway… and in addition also provides the kind
of narrative and symbolic communication that gives meaning to the
whole. In other words, with any great work of visual art, you get the
symbolic communication, the illusion and the brilliant use of the formal aspects (like composition, color, texture, etc…) thrown in, so the experience of traditional, representational art is much more comprehensive, making use of all the strengths of abstract art, but in service to the substantive mysteries of symbolism and illusion. The great thing about, say, a Sargent portrait is how a dash of paint
can function so completely, powerfully and simultaneously as both a vital and evocative bit of brushwork and
as a totally believable reflection on the bridge of a nose or the curve
of a shoulder. We see it as one, then the other, then both at once. The
passage resonates with the energy of this meaningful dichotomy.

The point being that if you’re going to toss out
representation and illusion to begin with, you had better have
something pretty damned powerful up your sleeve to give meaning to the
formal properties of the piece… that is if you’re after fine art.

There is another way of thinking that says that visual art shouldn’t
be compared to the concrete symbolism of writing, but rather to the
abstract patterns of music. Being wholly ignorant of the subject, I
will not even try to write in any meaningful way about how music works,
how it engages the emotions, but I will say that art, music, writing,
dance, etc… all enter the mind and move the human consciousness in
very different ways. Art is not meant to affect us just as music does,
or one of them would be redundant. In a similar way, it would be a
mistake to push the analogy of art to writing too far. Fine art can be a great deal more like visual poetry than straight visual story telling.
There certainly can be a very musical sense of rhythm, texture and mood
to a piece of visual art, but the mystery and power of visual fine art
flows from its own spring and can’t be understood simply and solely as
visual music.

There is a kind of art that functions something like visual music,
though… decorative art, which figures large in the next (and final)
post.

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Abstract art has its own audience. We can see art in almost everything. I enjoyed reading the blog. It was thought provoking. I like Abstract art. It's appealing and different from the usual.

Smoky, you generally caught typos, but 'risible' is a perfectly good word.

Something that has occurred to me as I thought about the art-ness of this particular Motherwell painting is the following:
Would it matter if I modified it a little bit? Changed the curvature of the black blob a little, or placed an additional black dot somewhere? Would anyone actually notice?
If, as I suspect, the answer is that it wouldn't matter -- that no one would really notice -- then I have a hard time classifying the piece as good art, at the very least. Good things--art or otherwise--ought to have nothing missing and nothing superfluous. Good art ought to be complete and each of its parts completely necessary.

Sounds like an argument for impressionism over baroque.

I hope not. Impressionism may elegantly achieve what impressionism can achieve, but baroque achieves something different.

I've seen this argued for music over at mere comments. The idea is that great music can't exist if the need to innovate is so strong that fundamentals are excluded.

I agree. A church music director I know was just commenting that while Mozart, composing in a very different time and place from Bach, wrote less cerebrally and more intuitively than Bach, rigorous early training from Mozart's father certainly fostered his astounding gifts.

Further the argument is that each new great composition builds on a tradition, a structure and an agreed language that defines quality. Without a defined standard you get "crud" or "cruddy art"

Yes to tradition, structure and agreed-upon language. Not sure about "defined standard." In my Western Catholic ears that sounds a little more prescriptive than I think such a thing probably is.
Artist and viewer must share some sort of intersubjective socially shared common ground, but it's the artist's prerogative to push the structures as much as he thinks he can get away with. Of course it's then the viewer's prerogative to decide whether or not the effort was successful (though no one viewer can render a definitive judgment in that regard).

So here's the challenge: how is a standard defined and hasn't the standard evolved through time? It's not too clear to me how to sharply define quality in art objectively.

That ambitious question far outstrips my modest goals in this line of thought, I'm afraid!

Elegance is wonderful but an insufficient description I think.

Yes, I only meant to give a partial description of one element in aesthetic enjoyment, not a unified theory of art! :‑)

Or programmer. There's nothing better than elegant algorithms.

Yes. I don't do programming exactly, but I code in javascript as well as html and css, and I work hard to code as elegantly as possible. I'm starting to get somewhat proficient at elegant css, and it's painful to look at the work I was doing six months ago.

Sounds like an argument for impressionism over baroque.
I've seen this argued for music over at mere comments. The idea is that great music can't exist if the need to innovate is so strong that fundamentals are excluded. Further the argument is that each new great composition builds on a tradition, a structure and an agreed language that defines quality. Without a defined standard you get "crud" or "cruddy art"
So here's the challenge: how is a standard defined and hasn't the standard evolved through time? It's not too clear to me how to sharply define quality in art objectively.
Elegance is wonderful but an insufficient description I think.

An artist (or mathematician, chess player, etc.)
Or programmer. There's nothing better than elegant algorithms.

So to clarify it a bit please: the objective elements of art things like complexity, depth and composition? So fine art is layered and complex, building upon past work but innovating in ways that add meaning or expand the audience?

Hm. Well, complexity and depth can certainly be elements in aesthetic achievement, yes. But so can simplicity and clarity.
In fact, I think (I'm not sure, but I think) that the aesthetic effect of we call elegance in art often entails both complexity and simplicity at the same time -- the avoidance, perhaps, of superfluous complexity through which less elegant efforts would muddle.
An artist (or mathematician, chess player, etc.) who achieves something very complex with an exceptional economy of effort -- whose solution you would never have thought of yourself, but once you see it throws the whole issue in a new light and strikes you as the one dazzlingly right solution, a solution more discovered rather than created -- that is an aesthetically elegant achievement. Not just to do the impossible, but to make it look easy and even inevitable.

So to clarify it a bit please: the objective elements of art things like complexity, depth and composition? So fine art is layered and complex, building upon past work but innovating in ways that add meaning or expand the audience?

Zeno: Mathematics can describe harmony. I don't think -- I'm no expert, but I don't think -- that mathematics abstracted from aesthetics can tell us why harmony sounds better than off-key singing (at least, why it does to non-tone-deaf people who are aesthetically qualified to render a judgment).
The deeper issue is that mathematics and aesthetics are deeply intertwined in the first place, not at all exclusive. Mathematics can be elegantly appealing and beautiful, and aesthetic judgments inevitably involve concepts and relationships that can be mathematically described.
Chess is very mathematical, but well-played chess is also elegant and beautiful precisely in its mathematical precision. And just try to separate aesthetics from mathematics while thinking seriously about Bach.
Tim J: Thanks, I think we definitely have strongly converging views.

SDG -
Some very good points, well-made in your longer post above, and the wine comparison is apt (BTW, beer works that way, too... *nobody* starts off with Anchor Steam beer and then moves to Bud Light out of preference).
There are those who are just not interested in anything strange and different to their tastes, and who will never move on to a more mature aesthetic, and on the reverse, there are those who will buy fine wine (and art) motivated by little more than snob appeal - trying to impress people they probably don't even like.
It is a mistake to think that beauty can be quantified according to some kind of "formula", and it is equally a mistake to think it can't be objectively discerned at all - that it's all a matter of taste. There are subjective and objective elements to the experience of beauty.

SDG,
That sure refutes what I was saying about how not all aesthetic judgments are arbitrary.
Your example is not one of "aesthetic judgment" since you are not treating aesthetics here but, in all actuality, the mathematical aspect of music itself wherein there is, in fact, a "right" answer.

I hope I have demonstrated to you that the situation you presented (i.e., harmony vs. a person singing off-key) is not anything at all like my example (wherein both answers from opposing parties, the pro-polyphony v. the pro-monophony, would be correct) since it is far removed from the realm of preference to one of objective fact.

Yes. Once again, you have succeeded in demonstrating something that I wasn't disputing, and which in fact happened to be the actual point I was making.

Here, allow me to illustrate to you how your example fails --

Take, for instance, a 1-year slamming the keys on a piano vs. a concerto pianist.

Which would be the better performance?

The latter, of course; and this would be the CORRECT answer -- the only correct answer.

Right. That sure refutes what I was saying about how not all aesthetic judgments are arbitrary. I see it now. Thanks and peace.

Thanks Smoky!
P.S. Thanks for the additional cold water above, appreciated as always. Sheesh. The even-tempered agnostic playing peacemaker to the hot-headed Catholics. If it weren't for the Resurrection, Jesus would be spinning in his grave.

We shouldn't forget that sometimes the emperor actually is clothed, and the crowd really doesn't see what is actually there.
Spectacular.

SDG,
It does not negate my example, harmony vs. singing off-key
Unlike mine, your example removes the argument from one of preference to one of objective facts.
Here, allow me to illustrate to you how your example fails --
Take, for instance, a 1-year slamming the keys on a piano vs. a concerto pianist.
Which would be the better performance?
The latter, of course; and this would be the CORRECT answer -- the only correct answer.
I hope I have demonstrated to you that the situation you presented (i.e., harmony vs. a person singing off-key) is not anything at all like my example (wherein both answers from opposing parties, the pro-polyphony v. the pro-monophony, would be correct) since it is far removed from the realm of preference to one of objective fact.

How was my explanation to you above here not an explanation of de gustibus?

Yes. That's why I say you lost track. You wound up "explaining" something that hadn't been questioned in the first place. What I questioned was your use of "arbitrary," not de gustibus.
Your counter-example, polyphony vs. monophany, may or may not establish another point that was not under dispute, that some (many, probably most) aesthetic judgments are matters of individual preference. (I suspect your example doesn't establish the point, but let that pass -- I agree on the point, and there are examples that do establish it, and I'll give one in a moment.)
Your example does not negate my example, harmony vs. singing off-key, which I think indicates that not all aesthetic judgments can be reduced to matters of random or capricious individual preference. Perhaps we can say that there are principles in aesthetic matters that are discovered, not invented, randomly posited or subject to individual whim.
Another example: Two oenophiles may legitimately differ on the relative merits of a noble Bordeaux vs. a noble Chianti. On the other hand, a casual drinker may find a perfectly ordinary Merlot easier to drink, and thus more enjoyable to him, than those noble wines with their more daunting tannins. (Most of my extended family like white Zin, and one prefers sweet Manischewitz.)
Fine: De gustibus. The casual drinker isn't "wrong" for preferring the Merlot, white Zin or Manischewitz. But that noble wines are superior to ordinary wines is not merely a matter of individual taste in the way that the question of the Bordeaux vs. the Chianti might be.
I could get into what little wine science I know to try to explain why, but here's an intuitive insight that may help. Many oenophiles start out casually enjoying easier-to-drink wines, and gradually work their way up to deeply appreciating and preferring noble wines. But no one starts out casually enjoying noble wines and gradually works their way to deeply appreciating and preferring easier-to-drink wines -- and this is not just because of cost or access or anything of the sort.
The subtleties of aesthetic enjoyment and appreciation that oenophiles find in noble wines are richer, more varied and more complex than any aesthetic experiences offered by ordinary wines to any kind of drinker. The oenophile doesn't simply appreciate different wine than the casual drinker, he appreciates wine in different ways that the casual drinker can't yet approach -- and for precisely that reason he recognizes the limitations of ordinary wine to which the casual drinker is as yet insensible.
The same point could be made of literature or movies. Back in my college days, I would sometimes watch movies with my kid brother and his young friends. Often enough, I might find fault with some forgettable movie that they felt was perfectly enjoyable, and they would razz me about being too critical and spoiling my own fun.
But then came a day when we sat down to a movie that was actually exceptionally good, and my brother got what was special about it -- but he noticed that although his friends enjoyed the movie too, it didn't stand out to them the way it did to him and me. To them it was just another movie, no better or worse than the last forgettable feature they had watched.
I think that was a kind of aesthetic waking-up experience for my brother. He understood with new clarity that there was more to be appreciated in movies than his friends had yet realized, and the more aware of this "more" you were, the more aware of the limitations of other movies you were likely to be. By watching movies critically, one isn't "spoiling one's own fun" -- one is opening oneself to new pleasures not available at less critical levels of viewing.
This doesn't mean being a snob and being unable to appreciate or enjoy more modest fare for what it is (and even modest fare can be a great example of what it is). It does mean recognizing that aesthetic judgments are not wholly random or capricious -- that beauty, in a word, is not entirely in the eye of the beholder.
So, getting back to the crappy art at the top of this post...
...the above considerations may help explain why, while I don't mind making aesthetic judgments like "That painting is crap," I tend to want to be cautious and to offer my opinion in a qualified and non-definitive way, subject to revision.
I don't want to be too quick -- I don't say I never would -- to rule out the possibility that maybe I simply don't "get" it yet, as my brother's friends didn't "get" the exceptional film or as the casual drinker doesn't "get" the exceptional wine.
We shouldn't forget that sometimes the emperor actually is clothed, and the crowd really doesn't see what is actually there.
Other times, nope, he's naked. There are plenty of examples of both, and one is easily confused for the other.
(Well, that was a whole heck of a lot more than I meant to write.)

Someone, after criticizing a fellow commenter because she
quite obviously doesn't understand Latin, as witnessed by her incoherrent [sp] babblefish attempt at English to Latin translations
Apparently doesn't know English very well him(her?)self:
at the risk of sounding like yet another cloying psychophant here
I had no idea we condemned sycophants to mental institutions.
The attacked individual then responded with:
But, alas, this seems to have escaped a certain intellectually-challanged "somebody" here who appears undoggedly persistent in trying to show to everyone just how magnificent he is in comparison to Mr. Peters due to some risible showing of consensus
Folks -- before commenting on each other's intelligence, how about using spell check lest we doubt yours?
Cheers,
Matt

SDG,
You seem to have lost track of the fact that you weren't explaining de gustibus
How was my explanation to you above here not an explanation of de gustibus?
How much more plainly can I make it, the fact that nobody wins in terms of matters that revolve around taste?
For example, there are those who laud the beauty of polyphony while condemning monophony while proponents of monophony hail it as paramount in comparison to the excess of polyphony.
Are either of these two factions correct?
NO! They are both correct as this matter involves not an argument that can be won with superior facts (as you would when dealing with objective issues) but rather one of personal preference.
That is why I had said that "it's a familiar principle (at least, to some of us) that, as Mr. Peters had mentioned, De Gustibus non est disputandum -- there's no arguing over taste!"

Arbitrary rule/etiquette enforcement notice: Criticism of behavior is one thing, but let's please have a moratorium on hostile personal attacks. This is not directed at any one person; there is no one single culprit.

Zeno: You seem to have lost track of the fact that you weren't explaining de gustibus, which I acknowledged all along. At best you were explaining your usage of "arbitrary."
However, the whole argument here is that aesthetics is not wholly rooted in matters of individual taste. For instance, the aesthetic difference between four-part harmony and singing out of tune is not arbitrary; if someone can't tell the difference, he is tone-deaf, not differently tasted (so to speak).
Incidentally, I just noticed your "Mrs. SDG" "gaffe." Ah, brutha. Handle subterfuge aside, I've long known that you had a passive-aggressive streak, but as often as we've butted heads in the past, I still thought better of you, frankly. I still think of you not without affection, though.

Maybe he wasn't talking about the post, but rather the author...

Elijah,
Crud.
Your statement here alone makes it irrefutable.
As I've already elaborated -- there's no arguing over taste.
I hope my above explanation to SDG here made that abundantly clear.

No wait. I know how to make my assessment irrefutable. 'Udcray'. See how smart and superior I am?

If it weren't for them Latin would have died out years ago.
Considering today's "Catholics", this is certainly the case.
Oh..yeah...and the church too : P
And just which Protestant church would that be?

SDG LOL!!!!
and yes, gotta love lawyers. If it weren't for them Latin would have died out years ago.
Oh..yeah...and the church too : P

SDG:
Perhaps Merriam Webster made an egregious mistake by offering in one of its definitions for "arbitrary":
3 a: based on or determined by individual preference
But what do they know?

Zeno: Somewhere along the way you seem to have forgotten that you were meant to be explaining your usage of "arbitrary."
Try telling your sweetheart that her preference for not walking in the rain is "arbitrary." I suspect she'll "completely misunderstand" you too... a phenomenon I might hazard a guess you may be somewhat familiar with.
Deus: Thanks. FWIW, my Latin was aimed at Ed, who has forgotten more Latin than I'll ever learn. :-)

SDG:
Zeno: De gustibus doesn't necessarily locate something in the realm of the "arbitrary." If someone doesn't like the Sistine Chapel ceiling or Bach's Mass in D Minor, but does like Baby Geniuses or Roseanne Barr's singing, well, de gustibus and all that, but it doesn't mean my opinions on the relative merits are "arbitrary."
You seemed to have completely misunderstood what I meant by my usage of the word "arbitrary" within the context of my post.
To illustrate my meaning -- say, for example, I were to ask my sweetheart that she and I take a walk together outside.
If she were to respond to me, "No, it's raining" and I were to say in response, "Well, according to studies conducted at Harvard, walking in the rain is particularly good for you since it actually boost one's immune system because blah, blah, blah."
In other words, by presenting superior facts over her initial rejection, I can try to win the argument.
Yet, if she were to respond to me, "I don't like to walk when it rains."
She has, in effect, removed the whole argument from the realm of objective fact to one of personal preference.
Personally, she doesn't like to walk in the rain and it's a familiar principle (at least, to some of us) that, as Mr. Peters had mentioned, De Gustibus non est disputandum -- there's no arguing over taste!
(Nota bene: "arguing" as opposed to someone's previous inferior translation)
But, alas, this seems to have escaped a certain intellectually-challanged "somebody" here who appears undoggedly persistent in trying to show to everyone just how magnificent he is in comparison to Mr. Peters due to some risible showing of consensus on a matter that, all in all, as previously said, revolves around a person's taste!

SDG, Zeno quite obviously doesn't understand Latin, as witnessed by her incoherrent babblefish attempt at English to Latin translations, as well as her misunderstanding of the phrase de gustibus non est disputandum. So, you might not want to throw around other foreign phrases like "raison d'etre", as their meanings will no doubt be lsot as well when she runs them through the online translator.
But back to your point, at the risk of sounding like yet another cloying psychophant here, I agree with you 100% there. Many consumer products have a design department which seeks to enhance the appeal of an object through art, color, utility and/or other aesthetics. Watches are perfect examples of this. Regardless of their "artistic design" or "sleek appearance", they are watches. If they stopped telling time, then they would be jewelry.
Meanwhile, a painting may have a utilitarian aspect of covering up a stain on a wall, but its main purpose or "raison d'etre" as you put it is in fact artistic. And whether that painting is the Ravishment of Psyche or Elvis on Velvet, it is still art.

Zeno: De gustibus doesn't necessarily locate something in the realm of the "arbitrary." If someone doesn't like the Sistine Chapel ceiling or Bach's Mass in D Minor, but does like Baby Geniuses or Roseanne Barr's singing, well, de gustibus and all that, but it doesn't mean my opinions on the relative merits are "arbitrary."
Ed: Without attempting a rigorous definition of art, perhaps it might not be entirely useless to say say that the painting above is art because its raison d'etre is to be experienced in an aesthetic way? Technology is not per se art because it has a different raison d'etre defined by functionality and utility (although aesthetics and thus art can come into the design of a technological work, e.g., a sleek and sexy iMac).

Vesa/Zeno/Toadie/Harpy/Troll,
Do you think Ed Peters is so incoherent that he needs you to explain his posts? Or are you just fond of butting in where no one cares to hear your opinion? You would do well to let others say what they mean and let the rest of us respond to them, not you, as you really haven't said anything particularly meaningful or intelligent since you began posting under this new monicker.

Ed Peters has already made it clear in his subject post, "De gustibus non disputandum est".
That is, we are not discussing matters here that have an objective right or wrong, but rather tread in the realm of the arbitrary.
For somebody to continue his uncharitable attacks on Mr. Peters do not make Mr. Peters the fool he would like others to regard him as, but rather is merely demonstrating not only their own idiocy but also their appalling unchristian behaviour.

ED I say no.
You are of course entitled to your opinions here. But they really aren't based on anything other than your own personal feelings and emotions. But you can't say, "Folks agree with this more than they realize" when nearly everyone here has taken the opposite position (i.e. that we don't agree).
I think everyone here save yourelf holds the "cruddy art" opinion.

Mr. Ed Peters,
Thanks for your kind words, Zeno. We do what we can under the circumstances.
It wasn't without just cause.
What elicited the so-called excellent posts from Mrs. SDG & Paul (as one toady had put it, "SDG and Paul, excellent posts.") was your post; not to diminish the substance of their respective comments but, in my opinion, the question is just as significant as the answer(s) and, actually, in some instances, even more significant.

Thanks for your kind words, Zeno. We do what we can under the circumstances.
Paul, I think my answer can be deduced from what I said, but your definition of art is too broad, for yours basically reduces to, any human artifice (npi). I think "art" is distinguishable from "technology", say. EG: I fashion a tool called a bell to alert others to something (fire, Mass, time, whwatever). But I fashion a symphony to make something beautiful. I might fail, but I want to "make" beauty, and my failure to succeed is objectively determinable by fair-minded people. (ps: if i engrave the bell, i used it as the occasion for art, but in itself it essentially remains a tool).
Folks agree with this more than they realize, for in calling the cruddy "object" above art, many of them say, "Well, what else COULD it be?". They know it is not a tool, a sign, a piano, an advertisement for fine paint, etc, so, since it appears on canvas and was made with paint and isn't anything else, it must be, well, art. Bad art maybe, but art. I say no.
We don't define a thing by it's NOT being anything else. Or, we haven't since Aristotle. We call something what it IS.
imho.

Some people take the word "toadie" to a new level.
Posts from Ed Peters & deusdonat profoundly and respectively show the difference between those who are Christian from those who merely claim to be.

Some people take the word "toadie" to a new level.
Vesa/Zeno/Harpie/Troll, maybe you should take your own advice and allow people who actually add to the discussion to take over now.

SDG and Paul, excellent posts.
All due to Ed Peters' excellent inquiry into the matter.

SDG and Paul, excellent posts.

To answer Ed's questions. I don't have a high opinion of it. And it is art. It you use skills to make something, its art. There may not have been much skill involved in making this, but at least gross motor skills were needed to slop paint from the buckets onto the canvas.
Ed, really what else could it be besides art? It certainly isn't science. So between the arts and science, I'd say art. What other categories could there be?
Its like Computer Science. It isn't really science, it's art, but Computer Art wouldn't really draw in the students. Plus, the ComSci folks like to hang with the phycisists more than they do the classic lit majors.

J.R.Stoodley,
Really I was giving a 'shot in the dark' first impression sort-of analysis with this. Hey, isn't that what an 'ink blot' is all about anyway?
However, what really got me worked up about this painting is that Gerald on "Cafeteria is Closed" put up a picture of a modern tabernacle which had very similar symbolism to this picture. I'm sorry to say it, but these things do happen! So this is the point I was trying to make: Whatever the art work, just try to make sure the placement is correct for the particular subject. Then examine all possible suggestive or subliminal undertones, so that nothing serious gets 'flown under the radar'.

Ok, I was wrongly thinking the artist was Spanish himself. Still, look it up online and compare to the several other paintings of this artist, with the same name but different numbers, and then see if you still think it was deliberate.

I meant most people in Spain in the last sentence of the first paragraph.

A. Williams,
Wow. I definitely wasn't expecting that. My guess is it's still an ink blot that you can see anything it, but now that you have so insisted on it I'll probably be seeing it your way from now on. Maybe the artist intended it, maybe not. If this is truely nonrepresentational art then I'd say it was not the artists intention, but who knows? Also don't forget that most people are not circumcised, if that's relevant.
Anyway, I'll grant this at least, that given this possible interpretation it would probably be a bad idea to hang it in a school (though I doubt that would risk more than it becoming a joke to the kids) or a rape center or something like that.
I will say though that I think you've blown the issue way out of proportion. I'm like the bishops who covered up sex abuse by priests because I'm skeptical that an artist intended a blotch of black ink in an abstract painting about the Spanish Civil War to look like male genitalia?

In response to Ed's questions, I think the piece above is art, but I don't really care for it. So I guess you could say I think it's both art and crud. I'm with SDG, they aren't mutually exclusive terms.
The paintings on artrenewal.org are beautiful, but I'd steer clear of the essays, which are the flip side of the coin of exclusivity that Tim was right to reject from his art school experience.
... Ed is reminding me of something Tom K. said on his blog Disputations:
I'd guess most of the current Catholic aesthetic theories I've run into include as a theorem (if not an axiom), "Everything since 1900 is crap." Some of the people expounding these theories actually worked through them, others were just saying, "I know what I like."

In my opinion, here is an excellent example of abstract art: http://www.flickr.com/photos/msabeln/343668276/in/...

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