Just signed the petition. Keep up the good fight!

Thanks so much for posting this! I've signed and I'm trying to get everyone I know on board.
Obama Will Sign FOCA: Women and children hardest hit

Here, is another good page on the liturgy and music.
Sorry, to be posting so much, tonight.
The Chicken

Dear Tom,
I was originally going to do an explication of the text of, "On Eagle's Wings," but I will do that only if it is important, because I have just looked over the lyrics (again, I am very familiar with them), in detail and I am quite angry, just now. It is not a true paraphrase of psalm 91. It is a complete reworking of parts of it (with very important parts missing), interlarded with text from Isa 40:31, with an implied personalist orientation that was not the original intent of the text. The music is of a folk variety which should not even be allowed in Churches, currently. Make no mistake, this is music for the me-generation. It is similar to other offerings from the me-generation, such as those by the St. Louis Jesuits.
It does not properly reflect the text (read the originals, in context, using a good translations, such as the RSV) and therefore does not properly reflect the teaching of the Church. This is a post on FOCA, so I will not do a detailed commentary on this trend in Church music, here.
I suggest reading Thomas Day's book: Why Catholic's Can't Sing.
I am sorry, but I have a Ph.d level knowledge of music history and a fair acquaintance with the liturgical documents. This music is not a fair reflection of the intent of Vatican II, at all. The composer, Fr. Jan Michael Joncas, wrote the song in 1979, in the first wake of songs composed after the Vatican II Sacramentary was introduced. Church music in the United States was co-opted by liturgists who had a dubious understanding of the purpose of Church music and, from what I have read and the resulting music seems to imply, possibly an agenda at odds with a correct interpretation of Vatican II. Many Church musicians share my view. Most liturgists, do not. That should say something. Liturgists have co-opted the creation of liturgical music out of the hands of Church musicians, because of the influence of several individuals, if the history that I have, is correct (and it was written by a liturgical music expert who was present around the time of Vatican II). I do not want to get into the theology of music. Fr. Joncas teaches a course in liturgical aesthetics at a college in Minnesota, but his views and mine of the place of music appear to be different and mine is the prevailing historical view reflected in the documents of Church history up to and including Vatican II.
So, no, this is not just a simple setting of the psalm. I might be instructive to learn something about the history of Church music, if your only acquaintance with it is with the modern Mass music put out by such companies as Oregon Catholic Press, GIA, or the like (I do not mean to sound insulting. I just do not know what your background in this area you have) Compare, "On Eagle's Wings," with a setting of one of the Psalms by Tomas Luis de Victoria or Palestrina, for example, to see the real weakness of this quai-folk, personal approach to liturgical music.
For what it's worth, Pope Benedict the XVI has also had his share of hurt from the modern tendencies in music. A quote:
Only respect for the liturgy’s fundamental unspontaneity and pre-existing identity can give us what we hope for: the feast in which the great reality comes to us that we ourselves do not manufacture but receive as a gift. This means that “creativity” cannot be an authentic category for matters liturgical.
The effects of music (and architecture) on worship have a long history. It is important for the general Catholic public to be educated about them. If we lose a connection with history, we lose a connection to culture. If we lose a connection with the Church music of the past and its proper place in the liturgy, we lessen our hold on the prayer of heaven. A Church music website that is very loyal to the teachings of the Church is here.
No, this is not something trivial. Not by a long shot.
The Chicken

The fact is that people do have music and architecture and these are being presented as normative for the faith. Music should reflect the theology of the singer. Songs may be beautiful and reflect the faith and people may not listen, true, but if the songs are bad and people have been told that these represent the current theological understanding of the Church, then it is likely to have a cumulative effect on the listeners: lex orandi lex credendi.
The words to 'On Eagle's Wings' are a paraphrase of Psalm 91. Is it the current theological understanding of the Church that that particular psalm is heretical? If so, I seem to find myself in the wrong church.
I am prepared to stipulate that the music to that song is the auditory equivalent of lukewarm tapioca pudding. However, that shouldn't be a threat to anybody's faith; at worst, to their stomachs.
Likewise, I don't see why one particular style of architecture is inherently sacred and another is inherently profane. To draw such distinctions reminds me of one of Chesterton's rare moments of roaring foolishness, when he said that beer was Christian and tea was pagan. Millions of Irish Catholics (if they heard him at all) laughed and put the kettle on.

Thanks for the continued spreading of awareness about FOCA. We need to continue bringing it more and more attention with this petition and campaign. I posted on my blog about this with some good discussion in the comments section too...if anyone here wants to help comment and support the right side of the argument it is much appreciated: http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/2008/11/03...
God bless and keep fightin the good fight!

This is a new era in the culture wars for sure:
http://salesianity.blogspot.com/2008/11/be-not-afr...
I pray we are ready!

Everyone needs to checkout World net daily website there are articles talking about the Supreme Court on December 5th will go in conference about Barack Obama's birth certificate or should I say lack of. There are cases all across the country asking the electorial voters not to vote on December 15th until he provides his legal orginal birth certificate. Alan keyes has a case filed in California which got publicity on Drudge report several days ago. Major news media like Fox news are worried because when the Truth comes out there might be riots, that is why there is silence on the topic. Check out worldnet daily website also to sign the petiton demanding for Barack Obama to release his legal longform original birth certificate. If you don't believe it, call the offices at The Supreme Court and ask about the conference on December 5th! We need to stand up for justice before a marxist takes over our country. Do it for the unborn!!!

Dear Tom,
You wrote:
I cannot help but think of the saints of the early Church, who met in private houses and even in tombs, and who must often have had to make do without any music at all, for fear of being overheard and betrayed to the authorities. If modern Catholics need pretty buildings and Gregorian chant to keep them true to their faith, how feeble that faith must be!
This misunderstands completely what I meant. The fact is that people do have music and architecture and these are being presented as normative for the faith. Music should reflect the theology of the singer. Songs may be beautiful and reflect the faith and people may not listen, true, but if the songs are bad and people have been told that these represent the current theological understanding of the Church, then it is likely to have a cumulative effect on the listeners: lex orandi lex credendi.
The reason the early Church was able to survive is precisely because they had strong leaders and very direct prayer and songs. Their prayer was strong, so their faith was strong. Change the prayer, weaken the faith.
The Chicken

"If he signs it, will they still support him in 2012?"
My guess is, yes, they will. The Seamless Garment, dontcha know.
They will likely find some pretzel logic to justify their vote, regardless of what actually happens to the unborn, regardless of whether abortion actually increases worldwide under Obama (which it will).

But even if Catholic institutions were completely privately funded, licensing and certification would have to come from the state. Short of total disengagement on hitherto unclaimed lands, I don't see how you could get the government paw completely off.
On another note, I wonder if Catholic pro-life Obama supporters will treat FOCA as a line in the sand. If he signs it, will they still support him in 2012? IIRC, many said they could vote for him despite his support of FOCA because they did not expect FOCA to be enacted.

MC:
For at least thirty years, the Bishops's conferences have watered down what Vatican II wanted in terms of such things as appropriate music for Mass (On Eagles Wings!?), types of appropriate building designs for Churches, the place of conscience in making moral decisions- how many people think they can freely contracept if their (badly formed) conscience tells them it is alright- to the point where many Catholics in the pews have had their faith so diluted and enfeebled that they can't even recognize the potential for evil anymore. It was, at least to some degree, this thirty years of waffling teaching by the Bishops's conferences which allowed 54% of Catholics to vote for Obama and possibly turn the tide of the election, since the election was, at least somewhat, close.
If bad music and ugly churches were responsible for enfeebling faith, the Puritans would all have apostatized in the first generation. I do not say that Puritanism was any adequate substitute for Catholicism; but it was a good deal nearer the fullness of Christianity than the milk-and-water Anglicanism from which it dissented.
Speaking of which, the Church of England has not been saved from mass apostasy by the elegance of its buildings or the admitted beauty and inspiration of many of its (older) hymns — much better than almost anything sung in a vernacular Mass, at least in English.
It seems to me that you confuse irrelevancies with essentials. I would rather attend a proper Mass in a dingy modern building with bad music (or no music at all), and receive the Eucharist by a valid sacrament, than attend an Anglican service in a gorgeous cathedral, with a choir singing inspiring music in the voices of angels, and receive a bit of meaningless bread from an agnostic time-server pretending to be a clergyman. If I were given no other choice, I would rather drink the blood of Christ from a paper cup than sewage from a golden chalice.
I cannot help but think of the saints of the early Church, who met in private houses and even in tombs, and who must often have had to make do without any music at all, for fear of being overheard and betrayed to the authorities. If modern Catholics need pretty buildings and Gregorian chant to keep them true to their faith, how feeble that faith must be!

"That would be great but for the fact that the gubmint controls the licensing for such endeavors"
Keep them open, anyway. Keep teaching, and keep attending. Let them arrest everyone involved, that would make some fine television.
I'm telling you, it may come to acts of mass civil disobedience like this. We can no longer just let them wave a paper in our face and roll over, throwing up our hands and sighing, "Oh, well...".

Dear C Matt,
I thought of that. Short of planting evidence, the government is required to be just in their deliberations. If they close down a hospital for non-sectarian reasons, they darn well better be able to make it stick, otherwise, they will get taken to court and will be required to show that they aren't being arbitrary in their use of their regulatory power. If they are arbitrary, start spreading the word. There are certain fundamental rights guaranteed by the Constitution, such that if anyone meets them, they should be granted those rights. If the government starts passing laws that only atheists can run hospitals, for example (which is what FOCA would amount to) then its time for another Declaration of Independence.
Make no mistake, it is quite possible that another civil war might just be on the horizon for this country.
The Chicken

Signing the petition is a worthless feel good excercise
..but as far as worthless feel good exercises go, its one of the better ones...
We need to develop private Catholic hospitals, schools, etc., entirely supported by private funds and immune to government monetary regulations
That would be great but for the fact that the gubmint controls the licensing for such endeavors and could close you down whether they give you a dime or not.

BobCatholic said, "Welcome to Pagan USA. Where the only religions allowed by law will be Atheism and Islam."
If it's Pagan, it isn't atheist or Islamic. What we're facing is a New-Age-ocracy, already firmly planted where I live, a big part of my public school education in the '70's and '80's, and the only religions allowed are neo-paganism (which is very different from real ancient paganism but they don't admit it), a kind of impersonal Buddhism, and agnosticism steeped in relativism, existentialistic solipsism, socialism and utilitarianism, all mixed until they turn to a mush of anything-but-monotheism, and shoved down every throat every day everywhere. I have lived my life in it. I grew up implicitly believing in it. Make no mistake, the pushers of that philosophy are serious and think they're actually saving the world from overpopulation and what they call ignorance. They see life as inherently a burden and a little irritating and OK only inasmuch as it provides material pleasure for others. They consider their own teachers super-wise, and thus see any disagreement with their worldview as pathological.

Can somebody help prove or disprove this? Is it just a made-up statistic by a disgruntled individual?

Dear TMC
I've never heard of this, but I suppose this website came up with that statistic by implying a preference for Obama on the part of these Bishops based on their public behavior regarding abortion, "single issue voters", and the like. The website could have used those other statistics that have been circulating on the Internet about how many bishops criticized Pelosi; how many openly stressed abortion as the most important concern in their homilies, and other about which I haven't heard.
Of course some of the bishops who voted for Obama would be proud to reveal their vote somehow, but I don't think that all of them would agree with it, or that it would be possible to know the vote of all of them.
Regardless of how this information was gathered, I agree with you that showing it is indeed scandalizing and unwise.
If you are used to visit the website in question, why don't you ask its folks about it?

Dear Simon,
You wrote:
I'm afraid I don't understand the inconsistency between opposing FOCA and 'allowing On Eagle's Wings to be sung at Sunday Mass'. Why does the latter constitute part of 'the history of waffling'?
For at least thirty years, the Bishops's conferences have watered down what Vatican II wanted in terms of such things as appropriate music for Mass (On Eagles Wings!?), types of appropriate building designs for Churches, the place of conscience in making moral decisions- how many people think they can freely contracept if their (badly formed) conscience tells them it is alright- to the point where many Catholics in the pews have had their faith so diluted and enfeebled that they can't even recognize the potential for evil anymore. It was, at least to some degree, this thirty years of waffling teaching by the Bishops's conferences which allowed 54% of Catholics to vote for Obama and possibly turn the tide of the election, since the election was, at least somewhat, close.
Then, when Obama was elected, the Bishops suddenly decided to use "tough" language in their statements about abortion. Where were these types of statements on other issues, earlier. If they had been consistent in their commitment to Catholic principles as articulated in the teachings of the Magisterium, we might not be in the mess we are, today. In effect, they shot themselves in the foot and now are complaining.
There are legitimate difference that are permitted within the Faith, but to be so far in one direction and to so set a tone for the Catholics in this country and then to complain when they get exactly what their policies have allowed, seems a bit like complaining that you didn't study for an important exam and are now in danger of failing.
If they begin to take clear positions on other aspects of the Faith that are in line with the teaching of the Church, I might be willing to believe that the Church in the US can wake up and have a real beneficial moral effect on the country, but until then, many Catholics will go through life with half-formed consciences and a poor understanding of Church teachings. At this point in history, except for knowing when to stand and sit at Mass, it would be almost impossible to distinguish between a group of Baptists and these show-up-on-Sunday-and-then-play-golf Catholics.
Bishops are responsible for teaching. They must teach clearly and correctly. When they fail to do so, a man like Obama gets elected.
The Chicken
P. S. I have heard a rumor and I do not want to pass it on, so stop it in its track, here, if it is false- did 50% of Catholic bishops vote for Obama? I am not, not, I repeat, trying to spread gossip or slander the Bishops. I saw this statistic on a website and was scandalized, so I am trying to seek the truth so that I may not make unfair statements. Can somebody help prove or disprove this? Is it just a made-up statistic by a disgruntled individual? You guys who have more savvy in political/social matters, keep a poor Chicken honest.

Done!
I think the notion of being teleported back to the Roman Empire is a good one, or even more accurate would be the Calle era in Mexico.
Or the nazis, or communists (take your pick!)
The important question is:
Will we as Catholics be able to carry on the war against the culture of death with the same passion and class as our martyred ancestors?
Can FOCA's passage be staved off long enough for a president with no executive experence to disgrace himself in the public eye ans so loose credibility with congress and the press (who aren't exactly poster children for credibility themselves?)
If not, the Catholic Church in the US will likely be the persecuted Church in the US.
If your Diocese is taxed to the point of closure, what are you prepared to do about it?
If your parish priest is imprisoned for preaching the gospel and Church Doctrine, what are you prepared to do about that?
If you and your family are denied the Sacraments by an oppressive regime, what are you prepared to do about that?
When being a Catholic requires getting leaner and meaner instead of the cutesy-wootsy-ness of the current norm, will you be able to take up your post on the rampart steps?

Somebody else want to take this...I'm afraid I might give a long discussion on appropriate music for Mass and why we got into this mess.
The Chicken

MC:
I'm afraid I don't understand the inconsistency between opposing FOCA and 'allowing On Eagle's Wings to be sung at Sunday Mass'. Why does the latter constitute part of 'the history of waffling'?

>According to the (KENYAN) bill, legal action can be taken against parents who fail to assist their children procure contraceptives and abortion.
Sheesh, no religious freedom in Kenya.

The situation with the unproduced birth certificate is significant - and Barry Soetoro's grandmother and aunt testify that they were present at his birth in Mombasa, Kenya.
However, no one contests that he was adopted by Lulu Soetoro and went to madrassas and Catholic school in Indonesia, which only permitted Indonesian citizens to go to school, and did not permit dual citizenship.
That alone disqualifies Mr. Soetoro to be elected by the Electoral College.
There is also no evidence that he became an American citizen after returning to America, or that he ever changed his name back to Barack Hussein Obama. He possibly cannot even legally be the senator from Illinois. Or even any votes for him on ballots having validity, since his name was not on the ballots.
He could of course, correct all of this very easily and quickly, if he were able to.
How does this relate? If this is pushed, the electoral college will have to vote for someone else, and perhaps that person might not be for FOCA.

We have a duty and responsibility as baptized Catholics to defend the sanctity of life. A government hopefully in accordance with the natural law will support and defend their own people on this issue. The Catholic Church on Earth is th Kingdom of God under Jesus Christ. We Catholics are ambssadors to Christ Kingdom of God Church.We actually have a dual citizenship. The United States of America is our secondary citizenship in which we are called by God to support and defend the natrual moral law. FOCA actually was in the government books in the 60's before Roe v. Wade. FOCA is a neo-pagan,athiest,socialist,communist act. It is contray to natural moral law no matter what religion,nationality, race, color, or creed, involved. FOCA would be the next step toward the advancement of eugenics,ethnic cleansing,population control. Also, the green book called the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I advise all the fathful to have at least one in your home with a bible. One of the major reasons where everybody is arguing over pro-life,pro-choice, theology and politics,church and state is because of terrible lack of catechesis especially in the 50-70 year old group. The Mass is not a just social hangout. We do not throw Jesus in the church closet until the next Sunday.The priests are not the only people who talk about God and Christian values. We lay people have the responsibility when we leave Mass to live the word of God by our example to the children and our brothers and sisters. Not trying to run each other over to get of the parking lot to go to the shopping mall or home to watch football. Nothing wrong about shopping malls and football games. It's just we have put God below our daily lives. I help teach CCD class. I know kids at high school age that can't read a bible,pray a rosary, emptying the pews by the crowd with their parents to receive Holy Communion and run right out of the church building with no clue if they are in the state of grace or even believe the Eucharist is the body,blood,soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. If you are pro-choice,you are not Catholic. No matter how much money,how high in government,how much education or social status you think you are. The Mass is not a "divine rabbit's foot for good luck". We are no better than a staunch athiest or pagan. We are witnesses to the fullness of truth. If FOCA succeeds, like one person wrote,we may be going back to the Roman Empire and back to the underground to prevent jail or execution. God Bless you

Nearly all laws are based on morality. For example, it's against the law to steal, murder, commit fraud, abuse children, beat your spouse, and on and on and on. To say we shouldn't "legislate morality" or "impose our beliefs on others" is simply hogwash. To say the unborn don't have rights until they are born is more hogwash. Then, at what point to human rights begin??? When born? When in the birth canal? A year old? A baby , when conceived, is a distinct human being, different from both the mother and father, with his/her own unique DNA. Just because it can't survive outside the womb or isn't wanted, or would make life hard doesn't make it a non-person. A newborn, one or two year old can't survive outside the womb without support either. Our culture has marginalized and stripped unborn children of any and all rights and personhood based on whether it is wanted. How pitiful. The right to "choose" comes BEFORE the sexual act. After that it's a RESPONSIBILITY. Where would YOU be if your mother had chosen abortion?? It's sad and ironic, all the people who supported slavery were FREE, and all the people who support abortion were BORN! Further, the Nazis took away all rights and freedoms from the Jews and reduced them to non-persons. Then it was easy to justify killing them, starving them to death, working them to death and using them for medical experiments that also KILLED THEM! This isn't a religious issue. It is a human rights issue, a discrimination issue and an oppression issue with the victims being the most helpless, innocent, vulnerable, defenseless and invisible victims ever.

Hey Everyone
Speaking of petitions, I've just received the following e-mail from C-FAM, promoter of the petition that I mentioned earlier on this thread:
Dear Friend,
The UN Pro-Life Petition has grown to 200,000 names!
Let's go even higher!!
Let's get 300,000 names!
Once more please ask everyone you know to go to
http://www.c-fam.org/publications/id.95/default.as... and sign the petition! And ask them to ask all their friends, too!
Yours sincerely,
Austin Ruse
President
C-FAM

Consider signing this one, too!

Dear BSE5150,
Such a rosary has already been started. Here is a link to Tom at Disputations. See the November 5, 2008 post near the bottom of the page.
The Chicken

Does anyone here think an online rosary rally might get more done for this issue? Anyone want to start one?

Does anyone know what House and Senate commitees this horror will come out of? I would like info on the commitee members like which ones support it or don't and how to contact them. A little pressure there may slow it down or change its content some.
Water Guy

Signed it .

I think the bigger issue is getting the majority of cradle Catholics to be pro-life instead of crypto-pro-death. Once we accomplish this the FOCA becomes an non-issue.
Unfortunately the vast majority of Catholics voted for Obama and they will get what they deserve. Hopefully the painful medicine of Obama is a wake up call for the Church.

Dear TMC
Regarding your #2, take a look at what Steve Kellmeyer has to say about it.

A couple of notes from the news...
1. It is extremely ironic to the point of being hilariously sad that Kenya is having the same problem we are with a freedom of choice bill.
2. Believe me, the Vatican is very aware of what preseident-elect Obama stand to do in the life arena.
The Chicken

"We need to develop private Catholic hospitals, schools, etc., entirely supported by private funds and immune to government monetary regulations."
Amen. That would be worthwhile charitable direction, rather than letting the government have its hand in everything from personnel policy to conscientious objection (to evil practices like abortion), we ought to be willing to be *totally* self supporting, EVEN if it means doing without some things we've been used to.

Getting back to FOCA, I find it strange that bishops will stand up against this, but still allow, On Eagles Wings, to be sung at Sunday Mass. There should be some consistency in standing up for things. The history of waffling is starting to catch up to them. I hope the seriousness of this situation will filter down to others aspects they must deal with, such as Church architecture and the like.
I expect FOCA to be a high priority for Obama because Obama wants to involve the UN policy makers in a "global" solution to the "problem" of overpopulation and he runs the risk of losing face if he does not go through with both advocating congress to pass and then, himself, signing FOCA.
As Catholics, I would get ready to withdraw from the common everyday we have known for the last fifty years and isolate ourselves until the current policies self-destruct, in about another fifty years. We need to develop private Catholic hospitals, schools, etc., entirely supported by private funds and immune to government monetary regulations. If health regulations require that hospitals provide abortion for approval, then Catholic hospitals will have to shut down their emergency rooms and accept an exclusive clientele of Catholics who will not have abortions, much as some private doctors might.
However the health profession decides to deal with this, I see rough times ahead, especially for the poor and those without health insurance. Perhaps a religious Order will emerge that specializes in health care, pro bono, for Catholics. "Paging, Sr. Dr. Joan. Paging Sr. RN Agatha." Well, I can dream, can't I?
The Chicken

Dear Leo,
You wrote:
If there was such a simple 'knock-out' blow, surely McCain would have used it repeatedly, officially and publicly - regardless of any alleged dirty tricks campaign.
Are original birth certificates a matter of public record in Hawaii? Obama presented a COLB - a certificate of live birth - in essence, a secondary document that is supposed to contain the same information as the original. If the long-form is not a matter of public record, then McCain could not have asked for it, even if it would have been a knock-out blow (if it contained information that indicated that Obama were not a US citizen).
If the original document could have been obtained, it should have been obtained. I simply do not think that McCain had the legal resources to do so. The COLB was considered to be the normal legal form of birth certification for legal reasons in Hawaii. The registrar of public documents in Hawaii is really liable for all of this mess because, realizing the seriousness of the need to provide irrefutable information, he should have released or applied to the state legislature to release the original documents, which are always preferred in a court of law where there could be some question about derived or secondary documents.
Certianly, Obama would have had access to the original document. He should have made it available instead of this secondary source. He should have known that this were the responsible thing to do. Did he decide to do only the minimum to silence his critics? That is not the sign of someone who would go the extra mile for the people who elected him.
I still want to see the original document. It should be the right of all Americans to see it.
The Chicken

The supposed doubt over Obama's nationality has been debunked repeatedly eg snopes
If there was such a simple 'knock-out' blow, surely McCain would have used it repeatedly, officially and publicly - regardless of any alleged dirty tricks campaign. If such a challenge was viable would McCain have conceded defeat so promptly and graciously?
Opposing FOCA is far too important to be tainted by unworthy and easily-ridiculed allegations.

Dear bklyn catholic
I also realized that, if Obama is "American. 100%." as you believe he is, then he can't be a target of xenophobia. You can charge Norma of being uncivil, unjust, rude, whatever. But not of xenophobia.

He is American. 100%. I'd prefer if you kept your xenophobia off these pages.

Dear bklyn catholic
It's not xenophobia. Actually there is controversy over that.

Norma,
Barack Obama is not our "Kenyan-elect." That would imply his nationality is at all in question. He is American. 100%. I'd prefer if you kept your xenophobia off these pages.
None of us need to respect his opinions or policy, but as an American proud of our democracy, I will respect, and ask others to respect, the office.

>It smacks of “Inquisition Lite.”
The "Inquisition" is being done by the secular left.
In Illinois, pharmacists had their licenses yanked when they refused to dispense RU-486 citing a medical conscience clause. It took a serious appeals court fight to finally get the right to practice one's faith.
In Philadephia, 11 people were arrested for peacefully protesting, who happened to be Christians.
In Michigan, a church was invaded by homosexual activists and they attempted to force their views on the congregation.
Shall I go on? Time after time, it is the secular left that is doing the inquisition. With FOCA, it will be illegal to protest abortion, 1st amendment be damned. Churches will be persecuted under FOCA if they dare to oppose abortion.
Welcome to Pagan USA. Where the only religions allowed by law will be Atheism and Islam.

The rules state clearly that electors do not have to cast their ballots according to the popular vote cast in the general election.

I believe this varies from state to state.

I signed. Please don't let the hatemongers win. The Catholic Church is truth; abortion is evil; every fourth citizen in this nation is missing because he or she was aborted, and that's just since 1972. Perhaps one of them could have cured cancer. Or ended war/torture/nursing home cruelty. Or defeated Obama.
Has anyone noted that our Kenyan-elect is also promising to renew stem cell research on living/killed unborn children? Such research does not need human fetal sacrifice -- it can be accomplished on adult volunteers, in the Petri dish, on adult cells harvested without injury or death.
Listen to EWTN -- the options are reported there nationally and internationally every week. Don't expect the truth to be spoken on programming paid for by advertisers who benefit from sex. It's too profitable. Like selling toxic waste as baby formula is too profitable.
Like China still getting away with killing and mutilating girl children while Christians are --not incidentally -- being driven underground is "about" population control. And now the practice of sex selection is being imported to this country. Evil lives in a culture of death.
We have genocide, infanticide, euthanasia, abortion and a movie "industry" about horror. Like it's entertainment.
We don't need Hitler to destroy the disabled, the disadvantaged, the elderly, the vulnerably inconvenient -- we've got "pro-choice."
Our Holy Father pleads for life.
And Obama leads America.

elijio wrote, "Our constitution does not allow 'projections'. It calls for the Electoral College which is a very complicated process itself." The words "does not allow" could be taken as meaning "forbids", which is not the case. People can make as many projections as they want, but those projections are not determinative. The next president will be chosen by the Electoral College. Strictly speaking, the term "president elect", which almost everyone uses immediately after every presidential election, is not correct. Obama is the president designate. He will become the president elect when the Electoral College elects him and will become president when he is inaugurated.

I signed it and I passed it on to all my pro-lifers on Myspace.
After this election, I have come to the conclusion that a high percentage of Catholics don't know squat about politics and our Catholic politicians don't know squat about Catholicism.
Does anyone realize that the Electoral College process has not even begun to work? Electors don't cast their ballots until December 15, 2008. Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that the mainstream media ''projected'' the electoral votes, McCain conceded and Obama accepted victory when the process for the Electoral College, at least in Texas, isn't even in full swing yet? http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/voter/elector... The rules state clearly that electors do not have to cast their ballots according to the popular vote cast in the general election.
Why does this matter? Because you have been duped once again by the corporate mainstream media who tells you who you should vote for. They decided who should run, which candidates you should support, what issues were more important and what other political parties you should ignore and call ''crack-pots''. They have you stuck in a 2-party system and until we as Catholics decide who we are all going to stand behind regardless of Reps, Dems, Independents, Liberals, or Constitutionalists, we will never get legislation done our way.
Why do we allow the media to decide for us? Why do we allow CNN and Fox News to be our only sources? Anyone seen news from the Middle East lately? Try http://www.linktv.org/mosaic and let them tell you how they feel about our troops being in 2 of their countries. Technology has given us the INTERNET and we should do the research for ourselves and stop being sheep.
''Today, communication seems increasingly to claim not simply to represent reality, but to determine it, owing to the power and the force of suggestion that it possesses. It is clear, for example, that in certain situations the media are used not for the proper purpose of disseminating information, but to “create” events.''--Pope Benedict XVI on the Media.
We need to decide who our candidates will be. We shouldn't allow the media tells us who to pick from or to decide who the next president is. We need to make sure our Catholic representatives follow God's law and if they don't we need to vote them out! At what point are we all going to decide for ourselves who should better represent us?
Republican pro-lifers owned congress in 2000-2004, they had all their judges in the supreme court and did they overturn Roe v Wade? Was there even a move towards it? Do we really believe politicians when they make promises? Sure they make statements about being pro-life but how many bills do they have in congress to overturn Roe v Wade?
Our opinions are shaped for us by the media and our bishop's statements were even misinterpreted by some in the faith but in the end nothing mattered because the media picked the next president. Our constitution does not allow ''projections''. It calls for the Electoral College which is a very complicated process itself. God does not allow us to be pro-choice but our Catholic politicians do. We, on the other hand, sit in front of the dummy box and let Bill O'Reilly or Glenn Beck, CNN or Fox shape our opinions and tell us who is better fit for President of the United States of America.
Here's a very good article http://www.sflifeandjustice.org/
scroll down a little to the one entitled ''After November 4
By George Wesolek.''
Peace.

People who think that opposing abortion is imposing religious beliefs should consider Nat Hentoff, a left-wing civil libertarian who frequently describes himself as a "stiff-necked Jewish atheist." He is actively, militantly opposed to abortion and has been honored as a "Great Defender of Life" by the Human Life Foundation. Google on "Nat Hentoff" and abortion for details.

Dear Matt,
I suspect that you are a drive-by poster, but if not, then your logic has committed the faltacy of affirming the consequent.
You wrote:
There’s nothing wrong with the Church’s teaching. It’s spot on. It just shouldn’t be turned into law. It smacks of “Inquisition Lite.”
By this logic, nothing the Church teaches should be turned into law, but since the Church teaches that it is a sin to murder, then neither homicide or fetuside should be declared illegal under law. Simply because the Church teaches something does not prevent the law from intersecting and agreeing with it on that particular point. In matters of morals, the Church is the truth. Any law that is at odds with it is at odds with the truth and is unreasonable. Laws are meant to be reasonable. In the area of laws applied to moral behavior, you have it exactly backwards - the law should become identical to Church teaching. Laws may diverge from Church teaching only where the Church allows divergence, such as in prudential matters. Murder is not a prudential matter. Neither is abortion. How best to fix the countiry's infrastructure, is.
The Chicken

First, I don’t want my democracy to be even slightly turned into a theocracy.

The Catholic Church excommunicated legislators for voting for segeration.
You didn't even notice.
You'll handle this "theocracy" just fine.

Thanks. I went to the site and was able to add a link on my blog to the Fight Foca site.

I think the "pro-life" label is becoming more fashionable for politicians and voters seeking to soothe their consciences. We need to be more careful that "pro-life" doesn't mean "I don't like abortion (but I think it should be legal)" or "I'm personally opposed to abortion, but..."