Okay, here we go for the spoiler-enriched version of my reaction to Star Trek.
Total spoilage will be in effect, so caveat lector.
Continued below the fold.
Here are some general comments on the movie, grouped by category.
THE OPENING: Didn't really grab me. The "in media res" thing needed more explanation. If we ever heard the name of the Kelvin's captain, it went by so fast I didn't catch it. The only people that were built up were Kirk's parents, and we needed to understand who they were for this to have emotional oomph (which George Kirk's sacrifice had), but the scene needed more than that.
Some nitpicks: Just how long does a suicide plunge into a starship that close by take? I'll also do you one better on the dialogue. Instead of just reiterating "I love you . . . I love you" to his wife, George Kirk should have changed it the second time and said, "I love you . . . I love you both." Would have been more meaningful.
THE CAR CHASE: I didn't mind this in the previews, but I didn't like it the way the movie used it. It doesn't really connect to anything. It's just dropped in to show us Kirk as a rebellious, reckless child. And–it seems–not a completely fatherless one, since the guy on the phone is apparently his stepdad ("As long as you're living in my house . . . "). Then he destroys the car and almost destroys himself and we're not shown any consequences. Too much drama for not enough context.
Some nitpicks: What's with the 20th century ringtone? (Yes, I know the car is an antique, but that's not an antique car phone. I can live with this one, and even see the humor; but it takes me out of the movie for a second.) Also, when did they move the Grand Canyon to Iowa? What is that thing Kirk crashes the car into?
GREEN BLOOD, RED EARS: Meanwhile, over on Vulcan, Spock is getting bullied by Vulcan boys. There is precedence for this. We also see young male Vulcan bullying in the TAS episode Yesteryear.
I can do you one better with the dialogue, though: The Vulcan bullies should have started by throwing really hard questions at Spock–like those learning pool thingies–and only switched to family insults as he beat all the questions. Vulcan bullying ought to start intellectual and turn emotional when intellectual stuff doesn't produce the desired result.
A nitpick: We see some green Vulcan blood in this movie, like the scene right after Spock has been bullied, but I found myself thinking, "If these guys had green blood, their skin color would be completely different. Look! Spock is sitting in front of a window and there is light shining through his ear lobe, and I can see he's got red blood in there."
Yes. I know. It's just a show, I should really just relax.
I'm just sayin.'
BTW, I don't mind Sarek's admission later in the movie–after earlier repeating the standard line that the married Spock's mother because it was "logical"–that he married Amanda because he loved her. We've known for a long time that Vulcans have emotions and very powerful ones. They use the "We're logical" business as a game to keep them from completely losing control of themselves.
It's a form of denial, and always has been.
And I'll do you one better on the dialogue: After Sarek admits why he married Amanda because he loved her, Spock should have looked at him and said flatly, "Because you loved her." To which Sarek should have replied, "It is logical to marry the woman you love."
VASQUEZ ROCKS: Man, have I never seen so much of Vasquez Rocks in a movie! This has to be the Vasquez Rockiest movie ever! The filmmakers were on a mission to Photoshop them all over the place, and Yes They Can!
This was a bit of a treat for me, because I've actually ben to Vasquez Rocks. I took a day trip up there a few years ago (they're just a little east of Los Angeles). I always like seeing them in movies and TV shows, though I think they kinda overdid it this time.
(BTW, you'll notice you always see the rocks from the same angle. That's partly because that's the way they look most impressive and partly because if you turn the camera around there'd be a freeway right there in the shot.)
SPOCK BEFORE THE SCIENCE ACADEMY: I like his polite "Up yours" attitude when they got to the subject of his mom.
And, in the abstract, I'll do you one better on the dialogue. They've just commented on how remarkable it is that Spock has done so amazingly well (amaz
ing even for a full Vulcan) given the handicap of having a human mother.
ing even for a full Vulcan) given the handicap of having a human mother.
This wouldn't work on screen without some extra set up to explain the concept to the audience earlier in the film, but I would have had Spock slam the human mother thing right back in the academy's faces by citing himself as a case of hybrid vigor. In other words, he does so well precisely because he has a human mother. And I'd end the exchange with a stinger like, "Surely scientists of your caliber are familiar with the concept."
BAR SCENE: This scene was pretty standard fare. Nothing special. Had a couple of things in it that were crude, but they went by fast.
BTW, I assume others noticed the uptick in the number of cuss words in this movie compared to standard Star Trek. Guess that temporal divergence lowered everybody's inhibition to using such language a little. (Though at the "Scotty, get us out of here or we're all dead" moment, I didn't mind Scotty's reply.)
BONES: I like the portrayal of McCoy. Only wish he had more screen time. Accent should have been stronger, too. Liked the rationale for him going into Starfleet (given his obvious distaste for space and its risks). Also, it implies that there is still MONEY! Woo-hoo! Take that, Gene Roddenberry!
About the nickname "Bones." Didn't mind at first the new explanation they gave for it. Thought it was clever. But don't like it so much now. Is it really a good thing to remind a friend every time you use his nickname that the only reason he's in Starfleet is because he was broke after a failed marriage?
KOBAYASHI MARU: Didn't like Kirk's solution. Way too cheesy. Not elegant. No way he would have gotten a commendation for that (as in the original timeline). Should have done better with this.
Did like the debate on it afterward, though. Thought it looked like Kirk's side was doomed, but then he started to make some decent points.
Also liked McCoy's initial taking a liking to Spock. Nice irony.
DROPPED KLINGON SUBPLOT: So what's with the references to Uhura picking up a transmission from the Klingon prison planet? How are those relevant here? And how did Kirk know to ask if it was Romulans that attacked near there?
Also, why did Nero and his bunch wait 25 years seemingly doing nothing?
Turns out the two are related.
There is a dropped subplot in the film in which Nero and gang were captured by Klingons and they spent 25 years mining dilithium on Rura Pente. Then they escaped and were able to pursue the rest of their plan.
Kirk may have known that the people who were responsible for his dad's death were in prison in Klingon space (after George Kirk wounded their ship by ramming it), and what Uhura monitored was com traffic about their escape.
And thus the "Why 25 years of waiting?" thing is explained.
Or would have been.
INTO ACTION, SPACE CADETS!: The big coincidence of how everybody rushes into action strains credibility. What do you mean, "The fleet is engaged in the Laurentian system"? Is there a war on or something? And when does a government ever do something as stupid as committing all its defense forces to one location so that cadets have to be pressed into service? Saying the entire Federation fleet is in one system is like saying the U.S. put all of its trained forces into Baghdad. That's just goofy.
HOW KIRK GETS ON BOARD (BIG HANDS AND ALL): As long as we're being goofy, though, I did like the way McCoy got Kirk on board, big hands and all. (Yes, human hands really can get that big with certain medical conditions, though let's not go into those.) I also liked the recurring schtick of him getting the neck injections. On balance, it was fun.
HOW MUCH ROMULAN DOES UHURA SPEAK?: So Uhura is fluent with Romulan and all three of its dialects? I don't mind the filmmakers having gotten rid of the idea of first visual contact with the Romulans being in the TOS episode Balance of Terror (that was always a somewhat lame idea; how often do you fight a war and never see the body of an enemy soldier? Only a completely robotic fleet where the bots' memories contain no information about what a Romulan looks like would make that possible), but they are really chucking out the idea bigtime. Apparently humans and Romulans have had all kinds of contact.
THE VILLAIN: Liked him. Rather underdeveloped. (More development is given in the lead-in comic book authored by the writers of the movie, so it's about as canon as any non-screen thing is likely to be, but still he was kinda undeveloped.)
Liked the fact that he didn't ham it up as much as typical Trek villains.
Loved, "Hello, Christopher. My name is Nero."
Who says supervillains can't be relaxed and friendly?
SCRATCH ONE CHIEF ENGINEER: So the tradition of having a previously unknown redshirt die to show us the stakes is maintained. Fine.
Also, I liked the way they took this one out. For once, Kirk wasn't the uber-reckless individual. Someone out-recklesses Kirk and gets wasted as a result.
It's nice to see idiotic macho risk-taking get its just deserts for once.
TRAINING VESSEL?: So we've got lots of cadets manning the Enterprise. What is it? A training ship or something? That would make sense if it was at the academy, waiting to take on cadets. But then why is it also (if I am not mistaken) called a flagship in the film?
DEATH OF VULCAN AND SPOCK'S MOTHER: Hmmm. Risky. You close off a lot of potential storylines if you yank Vulcan. You also create others. If you're planning a series of movies, rather than a bunch of never-ending TV shows, though, the decision makes sense from a dramatic point of view. You get a big dramatic punch and some really interesting angles to explore in future movies. Look at what losing his home planet did for Superman.
Also, losing Spock's mother is a dramatic decision that can make sense, but I don't think they played it quite right. The shock of losing her should personalize the loss of Vulcan, but Spock's concern afterward is too much for the loss of the planet and not enough for the loss of his mother. You only get the dramatic payoff of killing his mother if you allow him to focus on that event emotionally. If you let it get overwhelmed by the other loss Spock has just suffered then you undercut it and lose the point of doing it.
Really, the situation here for Spock is quite subtle: He's just lost the planet whose path he chose to pursue and he's lost the mother that represents the path he could have taken. He's just taken a hit on both sides of his hybrid self.
But they don't explore that in the movie.
Also . . . what was Amanda doing in the Katric Ark, anyway? Was she supposed to be some kind of high-level human esper who was able to manipulate Vulcan katras or something? If so, that's a huge aspect of her character that we'd never heard anything about. It also kinda undercuts her as a normal representative of the human race the way Jane Wyatt was.
SPOCK & UHURA: Didn't mind that they have a romantic relationship. Vulcan-human romances are clearly possible (Sarek and Amanda, anybody?). Christine Chapel also carried a torch for Spock for the longest time. So in this timeline Uhura actually succeeds in establishing a romantic relationship with him. Fine. I don't have a problem with that in principle.
I also liked that we finally got her first name established on-screen.
And I liked that they beefed up her role as a xenolinguist. I did feel that they were in danger of overplaying that a bit, though. While ultra-competent genius xenolinguists may tend to be attracted to slots on exploratory vessels, the viewer can only see so many of them before they start to feel like you've seen one Hoshi Sato, you've seen them all.
GET HIM OFF THE SHIP: I agree with Kirk. I think Spock likely violated some kind of regulation here. Ships have brigs for a reason.
Credibility is straining as we move forward to . . .
THE MOTHER OF ALL COINCIDENCES: Even Spock Prime is amazed that Kirk found him. What are the odds of that? Pretty dang small! Even granting that they'd be on the same world, the chances of the two finding each other in five minutes–or at all–are vanishingly small.
Apparently there was a dropped line or a line from the novelization in which Spock Prime suggested that their meeting might represent the timeline trying to repair itself.
Some dialogue along those lines would have given us at least something to expla
in the massive unbelievable coincidence. Spock Prime hanging a lantern on the problem just isn't enough.
in the massive unbelievable coincidence. Spock Prime hanging a lantern on the problem just isn't enough.
DELTA VEGA: Come ON!!! Vega IS A STAR. Delta Vega would be some kind of fourth thing (like a planet or space station or third stellar companion or something) in orbit around Vega. It's also not where Vulcan has previously been established to be. And it's far too young a star to have a system with anything but very primitive life (if that).
From what we're shown in the movie, Delta Vega would have to be a moon of Vulcan if you can optically see the planet implode in the sky.
And we already know that "Vulcan has no moon."
And, even if it did, THERE'S A BLACK HOLE THAT JUST ATE THE PLANET YOU'RE IN ORBIT AROUND!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!! YOU'VE GOT MINUTES (AT BEST) TO LIVE!!! WHAT IS SPOCK PRIME DOING HIDING OUT IN A CAVE AND WHAT IS SCOTTY DOING LAZING AROUND IN A FEDERATION BASE?
And . . . why was Spock Prime living in a cave, even before this, and why hadn't he gone over to the base and introduced himself to Montgomery Scott?
BTW, the writers apparently picked the name "Delta Vega" because it had been previously (inaccurately) used in Star Trek history and they wanted the resonance of a name we'd heard before. Fine. There are lots of names we've heard before in Star Trek and had no clue where they were. Pick one that works.
STARDATES: They're doing something different with the stardates in this movie, and it seems that they're botching it. More later. Maybe.
SCOTTY & HIS ASSISTANT: Liked them both! They were fun! Also liked the reference to Admiral Archer's beagle (couldn't be Porthos, but he may like the breed).
BEAMING ONTO THE ENTERPRISE: Stretched plausibility too much. I thought they were going to take that shuttle, launch it, get up to speed beside the Enterprise, and beam over at warp with no reception pad. That would have been achievement enough for 23rd century tech. Beaming from a planet/moon onto a ship at warp is just really credibility straining given what's been established thus far in this universe (including Mr. Scott's future original timeline).
And speaking of stretching credibility . . .
RED MATTER: I don't mind that they have goop that you can use to make a black hole. I don't mind that it's red. I actually like the fact that they try to avoid too much technobabble with it. But I think the name needs work. Lotsa matter is red. We need a little more thought put into this one.
Also, it appears that red matter only goes blackhole on you if it's in some kind of heat situation (like the core of a planet or a ship's engines or something). This needed to get more explained in the film.
(NOTE: Any matter will make a black hole if you squeeze it enough. Red matter apparently has the property of squeezing itself and/or matter it is nearby to the right level in the right circumstances. They shouldn't have gone into this too much, but a little more help–or at least a better name for the goop–would have helped.)
(ALSO NOTE: The black hole physics in this film are obviously not meant to be taken seriously.)
"WE COME IN PEACE; SHOOT TO KILL": James Tiberius Kirk is a war criminal!
Okay, we already knew that.
Or at least it wouldn't come as much of a surprise . . . at least for his mirror universe counterpart.
But the film lost me when we see Kirk commit what appears to be a flat-out war crime at the end of this film.
I like that he offers Nero help. I like that Spock resists. Funny! I don't mind that Nero refuses. (Though he does get a bit over-the-top supervillany at this precise moment.)
But at that point Kirk should have beamed all of Nero's crew aboard anyway.
Instead . . .
HE MASSACRES A DEFEATED ENEMY!!!
That's a war crime.
<
div>Apparently the writers have suggested that Kirk did this to prevent Nero from escaping through the wormhole and causing problems elsewhere but . . . if that's what you're going for then at least give us a couple of lines to set it up.
The way it is now, Kirk's climactic act seems positively UN-heroic: "Hey, we're generous Federation types! We'll help you out now! No? Okay, KILL THEM ALL!!!"
YOUNGEST CAPTAIN EVER: Apparently Star Fleet rewards its war criminals (maybe this is the mirror universe) by making Kirk the youngest captain ever.
According to the writers, there are subtle cues in the movie that hint that more time may have passed (here and elsewhere) than is obvious, but it doesn't come across that way.
You could have done the same work just by adding a scene in which Pike tells Kirk that his performance on this mission is a start to a great career and then putting up a title that says "THREE YEARS LATER" and having Kirk being given command of the Enterprise.
Slows the dramatic momentum only a tic; still gets you to the same point.
At least that's how I'd be inclined to do it if you want to end with Kirk as a captain.
I understand that the more you dot the i's and cross the t's, the more you slow the action, but you also mitigate fan blowback if you at least dot and cross some of the big ones.
HUMOR: The humor worked! I saw this in a matinee in a down-on-its-luck mall with almost zero audience, and there were still laugh out loud moments. Only once in the film (when Kirk bumps his head while getting on the recruit shuttle) did I find myself saying, "Oh, wait. That was supposed to be funny."
HYPERTIME: One concept that the show needed to do a little more with was hypertime–or at least the multiverse.
Lemme 'splain:
Some years ago DC Comics decided that its multiverse had become too unwieldy, too hard for new readers to get into, and they streamlined the whole thing in an event called Crisis on Infinite Earths, which resulted in a single DC Universe with a single history.
It was a controversial decision, and a lot of fans hated it because they felt like all (or many) of the stories they'd known and loved for years had been wiped out and now "never existed" (in a fictional way, of course). They had been booted from the canon.
Well, nobody likes that something they've loved and emotionally invested in (even a story) is now dismissed as nonexistant, so there was a problem.
And of course the DC writers couldn't constrain themselves from, over time, reintroducing the equivalent of a multiverse, and later one that actually has the name (though that's another story).
It's really just a particular way of presenting a particular kind of multiverse, but it has the effect of saying, "Look, fans, all those stories you know and love are still (fictionally) true. They're all 'out there' in hypertime/the multiverse. We're just not tracking those continuities right now. But you don't have to feel like we've wiped them out of (fictional) existence."
The Star Trek franchise is now in the same fix, and the need to do the same thing. They need to say, "Look, you're beloved former continuity is still out there; we're just not following it right now. If you were really attached to thing XYZ that is not part of current continuity, that's okay. Thing XYZ is still out there. We're just not telling stories about it right now. Maybe we will in the future!"
Apparently the writers thought about exploring this a little more in the movie than they did, but chose instead to focus on the characters' reactions to the idea that the timeline had been changed and their futures would now be different.
Makes dramatic sense but will cause problems with the fans.
I was reading online after I saw the film and saw one chat where the writers were being raked over the coals for the fact that the multiverse idea wasn't explored and that the phrase "alternate timeline" was used instead of "parallel timeline" (the latter, it was thought, would have made more explicit the idea that the original continuity still exists somewhere).
After trying to explain that the original timeline was still out there in the multiverse, one of the writers eventually was reduced to saying in frustration (paraphrase from memory), "I concede that the word 'parallel' is not in the film."
Gotta love the really harcore Trek fans!
They can break any writer!
Woo-hoo!
Jimmy, you can orbit a black hole just like you can orbit any other gravitational source. As long as the black hole that ate Vulcan ended up with the same gravitational pull at their distance as Vulcan had, their orbit would remain mostly unchanged. Of course whether a black hole with that mass could eat a planet that quickly, I don’t know. But in principle, orbiting a black hole safely isn’t a problem.
Maybe I would have been more pleased if they had dealt with the “alternate timeline” question more directly in the film, instead of just saying “Here it is, deal with it.” Maybe. But probably not. 😉
Also, when did they move the Grand Canyon to Iowa? What is that thing Kirk crashes the car into?
A co-worker suggested that this is a relic of WWIII. I can buy that. Wouldn’t surprise me if someone tried to blow Iowa off the face of the earth. 😉 (No offense, Iowans!)
That canyon looked like a large limestone quarry.
Some of the scenes were filmed at a place where I used to work – for a brief moment, I felt like I was back on the job!
I enjoyed the film very much, and I thought that the Spock character was particularly good.
Jimmy you stated, “About the nickname ‘Bones.’ Didn’t mind at first the new explanation they gave for it. Thought it was clever. But don’t like it so much now. Is it really a good thing to remind a friend every time you use his nickname that the only reason he’s in Starfleet is because he was broke after a failed marriage?”
In the turbo shaft in Wrath of Khan, Bones makes a statement about Carol “Marcus?” And Kirk retorts, ” You, of all people, should know the effect of opening old wounds” Not exact quote, but I think adds a new dimension to Wrath of Khan and the relationship of these old friends.
About the red matter: I think JJ Abrams needs to have some squishy red stuff with obscure properties in everything he does. If you ever watched “Alias”, you might remember the “circumference,” a big ball of red goo that was… well, actually I don’t think they ever explained what it did. But all the spies were desperate to keep it out of the hands of the bad guys. Maybe the circumference was red matter. 🙂
Jimmy,
Great spot on Vasquez Rocks! I haven’t seen anyone else note this. And I really like your idea about Vulcan bullying.
Nods on Spock’s “polite ‘up yours’ (“Live long and prosper”!), the stupidity of the new “Bones” etiology, wrongness of Kobyashi Maru sequence, funness of Kirk’s induced bloating problem, and most of your other points.
I have heard a pretty courageous attempt to retcon the Delta Vega-Vulcan visibility issue, but nothing that explains the stupidity of Kirk and Spock “Prime” meeting there.
A couple of dissents:
De gustibus; FWIW, everyone else I’ve talked to — even people who didn’t like the movie — thought the scene packed a wallop.
Heh. I felt just the opposite: Didn’t like it in the trailers, but loved it in the flow of the film. For me it connects directly to the loss of Kirk’s father — and FWIW while fatherlessness DOES correlate with increased juvenile delinquency, having a stepdad does NOT mitigate the effect, IIRC. Whoever that guy is, he isn’t providing J.T.K. with what, in the original timeline, Kirk’s own father did, which is just what I would want to see, so for me the scene works perfectly.
Didn’t like the “Bones” explanation at all, at all. “Sawbones” is an ancient name for a doctor that is still occasionally used, so the name was already explained. Didn’t like the way all the soon to be “senior staff” were presented as geniuses. Didn’t like the way the neo-senior-staff ran around as individuals abadoning their posts to fix whatever problems came up. A ship run that way dies pretty quickly.
That said, it was a fun ride with much subtle and not so subtle humor poked at the series conventions; a roller coaster ride without the bad aftertaste of “Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom”. I liked it for what it was: space opera done for the cheap seats. I usually opt for the cheap seats (if sometimes in “arthouse” theaters).
Jimmy wrote:
A nitpick: We see some green Vulcan blood in this movie, like the scene right after Spock has been bullied, but I found myself thinking, “If these guys had green blood, their skin color would be completely different. Look! Spock is sitting in front of a window and there is light shining through his ear lobe, and I can see he’s got red blood in there.”
Perhaps a mistake on the director’s part, but maybe not 🙂 – perhaps it is a subtle reference to his vulcan and human halves – too subtle?. By the way, why is Spock’s blood green? His blood is based on copper instead of iron and copper porphyrin (haemocuprin-like substances) are known in only one animal – the Taraco bird in Africa. Copper porphyrin is called Taracin and has its maximum absorption wavelength at 562 nm, in the red-yellow region of the spectrum, so the red in the ears could be the mutual reinforcement of the sun’s hydrogen-alpha line on the Taracin (H-alpa = 565.2 nm) shining through the thin region of his earlobe. Now, why is his blood green? Well, there is a fairly intense band in the near-uv region of the spectrum of Taracin, called the Sorbet band. It can be shifted to higher or lower wavelengths due to it environment. It is possible that the Sorbet band is shifted to about 415 nm and that, combined with the red-yellow color of th primary band combines to give a greenish tint to his blood.
So, yes, Spock can have green blood, but show a red color, on occasion – or the director just screwed up – take your pick.
As for hypertime – don’t get me started. That was D. C.’s way of back-peddling for their Crisis series. If there is hypertime (really, based on quantum many-world theory), time only flows in one direction, so even hypertime would not work to save the movie, because they didn’t just jump to a parallel timeline – they jumped back in time. Somewhere, some part of a timeline, whether in this universe or some other parallel universe must, I repeat, must have been destroyed.
The Chicken
Opps. H-alpha line is 656.2 nm, more in the yellow region of the spectrum. I wrote 565.2 nm. Hey, its yadirF. Taracin is usually red in situ in the Taraco bird, but the 562 nm Taracin line is definitely in the green region of the spectrum.
The Chicken
Note to self – always double-check values before posting on an internationally read blog 🙂
My second post about Taracin and copper porphyrins is correct. Ignore most of my original post. As I say, Taracin imparts a redish color to the Taraco bird feathers, but the main absorption band is in the green region of the spectrum. A copper-based blood should be green, although, as in the case of the bird feathers, can, occasionally (and for reasons I have no time to even think about) be red.
The Chicken
The green blood / red skin thing has always bugged me a bit as well.
I liked the film, but I don’t like the reboot for two reasons.
One – it’s cheating. It conveys the idea that the whole Star Trek universe that we know never happened. It’s cheap.
Two – The reboot isn’t going to give that many new ideas for the writers. Sure, the planet Vulcan storyline may give a few interesting sidelines, but what else are they going to do with the Star Trek universe that they couldn’t have done without a reboot? Klingons, Romulans, (insert whoever,) and finding new life and civilizations can only go so far after over a thousand episodes. Is there really going to be a new feel for the “new” Star Trek? I don’t see how.
TMC,
Spock bleeds green dude. If you can explain why red vulcan blood turns green when, say, exposed to oxygen, then I might be buying it.
FWIW while fatherlessness DOES correlate with increased juvenile delinquency, having a stepdad does NOT mitigate the effect, IIRC
A dead father mitigates the effects of fatherlessness; it’s the absent but living fathers that are real bad effects.
Stepfathers and deliquency — I’m not sure. I know they mitigate some bad effects (and for some are better than cohabiting actual fathers, because they are married), but not for certain this one.
I didn’t like the car stunt for three reasons. One I grew up in Iowa and that wasn’t IOWA! Didn’t like the Nokia plug. I hate it when they do that in movies. Three no one could have jumped from the car as it was going over the cliff. Inertia would have kept you in the car.
Your time line comment is interesting. I wonder if sales of all the Trek DVD’s will drop because now they won’t ever exist! Yea..I’m a geek.
No. Just the name “Star Trek” on marquees and DVD shelves will enhance the franchise’s profile and cultural cache, enhance brand awareness, and generally make people want more “Star Trek,” including all the old stuff. That’s the way it always works.
That doesn’t sound right to me. I’m a film critic, Jim, not a physicist, but it seems to me that if you can jump out of a car when both you and the car are at rest relative to the earth, you can jump out of the car when both you and the car are traveling at 60mph relative to the earth. Either way, you’re at rest relative to the car, and I would think your feet pushing off on the car would have the same effect in changing your velocity relative to the car at the moment of push-off. (Of course the distance between you and the car over time would vary depending on how the car’s velocity was changing too, but still I can’t see that you couldn’t jump out at all.)
I know the Chicken will correct me if I’m wrong. 🙂
No. Just the name “Star Trek” on marquees and DVD shelves will enhance the franchise’s profile and cultural cache, enhance brand awareness, and generally make people want more “Star Trek,” including all the old stuff. That’s the way it always works.
Indeed, Paramount just released two “best of discs” from the Original Series and The Next Generation. The blurbs on the back of these discs (which can be seen at trekmovie.com) indicate they are marketed toward new fans.
And for the more dedicated fan, there’s a new Blu-Ray box set of the 6 original cast films.
Indeed, Paramount just released two “best of discs” from the Original Series and The Next Generation. The blurbs on the back of these discs (which can be seen at trekmovie.com) indicate they are marketed toward new fans.
I hipe they’re marketed toward some special group, because the episode selection is pretty abysmal.
God bless,
Shane
I’d never even thought about the Vulcan green blood/red skin tones thing but I’m fascinated by your explanation, Chicken. Excellent! I’ll be pondering that all weekend!
And I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again . . . I love the new movie (I’ve seen it 3 times already – although the 3rd was a response to Angels & Demons, it counts nonetheless) & I’ve grown more interested in seeing older ST films & series that I’d basically written off as stuff I’d never watch again. And I’m sure I’m not alone.
Oh . . . I just noticed that writer John C Wright has posted on the new ST movie & he likes it! If you will permit me, here’s a link. Can’t wait for his review – since he’s such a die-hard ST fan, I hope it’s like Jimmy’s, kind of point by point. No matter what, he’s such a brilliant writer, we know it’ll be interesting & funny!
http://johncwright.livejournal.com/248317.html
Why there’s no Terminator 4 review today, SDG?
Amen, Matheus.
Good post too, Jimmy. 🙂
I think the Kobayashi Maru thing admits of a not-too-stretched explanation. The original Kirk grew up with a Starfleet father with whom he was on good terms; he comes to the academy knowing he has big shoes to fill and intending to fill them. When he figures out that the Kobayashi Maru is no-win, he doesn’t like this: he doesn’t believe in no-win scenarios, so he reprograms the test so that the Klingons are impressed by the reputation he intends to gain, and uses that to win the no-win test. It’s technically cheating, but it shows an ambitious commitment to Starfleet, and also shows considerable understanding of the fact that every scenario has more room for leverage than you’d think, if you think creatively. He gets a commendation for that.
The new Kirk, on the other hand, comes to the test without his father; he has no real sense of Starfleet honor and glory. But he still has that inability to recognize no-win scenarios, so he still reprograms the test — but this time simply makes the Klingons lose their shields. What sort of creativity and leadership does it show to rig the test so that the Klingons magically lose their defenses at the right moment? None whatsoever. That’s not just cheating, it shows a serious lack of judgment and a failure to understand what being a starship captain is about. He barely avoids being thrown out of Starfleet.
On the black holes: gravity is based on mass. A black hole from a collapsed planet would have pretty much the same mass as the planet, so it would have the same gravity — it would just be a very, very tiny object with the gravity of a fair-sized planet. The only way gravity would noticeably increase would be if the black hole gained an immense amount of mass.
But it was very weird that Spock saw the destruction of Vulcan. Perhaps it can be seen as a metaphor for his psychic connection with other Vulcans even across an immense amount of space, and thus the pain of feeling the severing of the connections and knowing what it was (which has been established)? But that really is a stretch.
Spock bleeds green dude. If you can explain why red vulcan blood turns green when, say, exposed to oxygen, then I might be buying it.
As Chicken stated, Vulcan blood is copper based. Look at a copper pipe. When it’s new, it has a reddish tinge to it but when it oxidizes it turns green. Vulcan physiology, especially their metabolism, respiration rate, and body temperature, keeps the blood from oxidizing in the veins, which still gives a reddish tinge to their skin. However when that blood is exposed to air and becomes room temperature, it turns green.
Well, it could be that way.
Wednesday, May 13, 2009
A Star Trek quiz…Boldly going where no quiz has gone before
By David Buckna
Special to ASSIST News Service
http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2009/s09050064.htm
A Heavenly Enterprise
‘Star Trek’
By Ann Hornaday
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, May 7, 2009
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/06/AR2009050603913.html?wprss=rss_print/style
Thursday, May. 21, 2009
Can we live long and prosper? Trekkers hope so
By SAMANTHA GROSS – Associated Press Writer
http://www.thestate.com/324/story/795938.html
Mattheus & David B:
See the latest Decent Films Mail for the explanation.
Ok, fine. At least I was not the only one who asked 🙂
Some considerations from me (from others also, perhaps):
That’s great and coherenet with Decent Film’s nature as a niche vehicle; considering that, I felt that the site has been too children-oriented lately. Not only me, but at least 3 or 4 more people here (and possible more privately) have asked you for reviews of Doubt and Gran Torino. I included Defiance and Valkyrie (the only one of these I had the opportunity to see, and liked very much).
I’m aware that when I asked that, you pointed me to you recent Taken review, but that one looked less important compared to other possibilities and also was released here 4 months before the US (when that happens, it’s usually a sign that the movie is garbage!).
Naturally, since families are you target audience but that immediately brought to my mind you frequent observations about Hollywood’s disregard for the necessary distinction between family movies and children’s movies.
Because of that, not knowing your # 1 issue from the Mail page, and since I was disappointed by Star Trek and didn’t consider seeing the other two, I thought that one more review in that category wouldn’t make much difference 🙂
I wasn’t, either. From what I saw in the trailers, it looked like a black and white remake of Mad Max. But then I read that the movie had Paul Haggis and Jonathan Nolan as uncredited screewriters/script doctors, and that got me interested. Since you wrote positively about Casino Royale and liked The Dark Knight so much, I thought you would consider it for a review.
But that’s probably a better theatrical track record than JJ Abrams’!
Jimmy Wrote:
A nitpick: We see some green Vulcan blood in this movie, like the scene right after Spock has been bullied, but I found myself thinking, “If these guys had green blood, their skin color would be completely different. Look! Spock is sitting in front of a window and there is light shining through his ear lobe, and I can see he’s got red blood in there.” Yes. I know. It’s just a show, I should really just relax.
Our blood changes color from a purple-ish blue to red depending on oxygen content. Maybe Vulcan blood changes from red to green, depending on oxygen content – so internally it could still show red (especially if vulcan veins run slightly different from ours, so that the de-oxygenated blood would appear where we’d expect oxygenated blood in human beings…
I wanted to like it, but two things made me very uneasy.
The first thing was the lack of a multiverse explanation. I went away thinking that all the series except Enterprise, and all the previous movies, are now all pretty much defunct since the past has been changed so dramatically.
The second was the mention of Archer’s dog. Everytime a dog’s death is used as a comedic interlude, it bugs me a lot. When I watched Anchorman and saw Jack Black kick Baxter off the bridge, it really bothered me until it was shown that Baxter really didn’t die. The same thing with the middle Pirates of the Carribean when the dog was being chased by the cannibals, until they showed the dog was still alive after the closing credits. So those ended up being okay. Unless I missed something, Scotty never beamed the beagle back using the new equations, so it still bugs me…a lot. Actually, as I think about it now, that pretty much ruins the movie for me. I had to put my own little beagle to sleep a few months ago, so it really kind of ticks me off as an attempt at humor.
I both liked and disliked the KOBAYASHI MARU scene. Liked it because of Kirk eating an apple (compare it to the scene in The Wrath of Khan when he’s explaining how he passed the test). Disliked it because it was such a cheap way to win. Why didn’t he use the Corbomite bluff? Kirk could have reprogrammed the computer to accept the bluff and have the Klingon ships back off. IMHO, a much more subtle approach and one that fans of TOS would have recognized.
I just realized something…
1st random thought watching the movie: “J.J. Abrams…that name sounds familiar. I wonder how I know it…”
2nd random thought: “Come on…time travel…going back to the past and changing the timeline. Hasn’t Lost already done that to death this past season?”
Today’s realization…J.J. Abrams is the co-creator of Lost! What is it with that guy and time travel?!
The more I think about the movie, the more I don’t like it. I don’t want to put up with either multiverses or changing the timeline. I think the movie finally killed Trek for me. This movie proves the “curse” with a vengence in my opinion.
“Hasn’t Lost already done that to death this past season?”
You can’t make a comment like that without a response from moi. 🙂 I take it you don’t like Lost, which is fine. But I really believe the critics of the time-traveling aspects of Lost are missing the point: lost isn’t hot and bothered about the minutiae of space-time theorizing; it concerns the characters, and the choice they are faced with and make when confronted with something as shocking as time-traveling. Therefore, I don’t think Lost does anything to death. Except people. Even they can ‘rise’ again. Most people don’t get Lost (heh), but for the people who do, it is an intriguing story of sin and the ever-present possibility offer of redemption. Forgive this off-topic digression (Gasp! or am I just returning to an earlier time period to realize the mistakes of my past?!)
Regarding the car going off of the cliff – I would have to see when Kirk jumped. If he jumped before the car lost contact with the ground, then he could have, possibly, pushed off enough to escape, but he would have had a lot of forward momentum to dissipate. If he jumped after the car were in the air, he could not have pushed off. The center of mass would have been constant and both particles, Kirk and the car, would have followed the same trajectory. On Jupiter, say, where the pressure is greater, there might have been enough resistance due to air for him to attempt to jump out of the car, but then, he would have weighed over 2000 lbs. Earth air simply does not have enough resistance to provide much to push against.
Copper in the oxidation state of O is reddish. Copper in the oxidation state of +1 or +2 is green/blue. Hemoglobin contains the iron porphyrin complex, heme, which when oxidize, goes from iron +2 to iron +3. It is the enhanced infrared activity in the 940 nm band that causes oxygenated iron to be red. Taracin, a copper porphyrin complex, is naturally red. I haven’t found any references that give its oxidation state. Usually, copper porphyrin complexes are green/blue. One way Spock’s blood might be red is due to the presence of what is known as charge transfer bands. The charge transfer band might be in the infrared.
The Chicken
Chicken: It was before. He’s still got a lot of forward momentum to dissipate when he lands, but it isn’t quite enough to carry him completely over the edge.
Copper in the oxidation state of O is reddish. Copper in the oxidation state of +1 or +2 is green/blue. Hemoglobin contains the iron porphyrin complex, heme, which when oxidize, goes from iron +2 to iron +3. It is the enhanced infrared activity in the 940 nm band that causes oxygenated iron to be red. Taracin, a copper porphyrin complex, is naturally red. I haven’t found any references that give its oxidation state. Usually, copper porphyrin complexes are green/blue. One way Spock’s blood might be red is due to the presence of what is known as charge transfer bands. The charge transfer band might be in the infrared.
Maybe he has BOTH hemaglobin AND “copperglobin” …a true hybrid.
Dear Martin T,
You wrote:
Maybe he has BOTH hemaglobin AND “copperglobin” …a true hybrid.
A nice idea, but the two compounds would probably have vastly different reaction rates. Any biologists in the crowd? How strongly would blood protein composition (not blood type) be sex-linked?
The Chicken
Maybe the alternate time line allows a follow-up where they go back in time to restore the time line. Perhaps there will be a few parallel films first.
Maybe the alternate time line allows a follow-up where they go back in time to restore the time line.
Let me say this, again. It Can Not Be Done. They may make a similar timeline to the original, so much so that the difference is effectively zero, but it will not be the same timeline. It is like typing the letter p, then erasing it and typing the letter p, again. The result is functionally the same as the first, but it is not the first. The original universe is toast.
The Chicken
Maybe he has BOTH hemaglobin AND “copperglobin” …a true hybrid.
Not likely – the leukocytes would go into attack mode. I think an all-or-none variation dominant/recessive idea more likely. Then again, I’m not a biologist, so that’s just a guess.
TMC, why are you thinking it would have to be sex-linked?
In the episode from the original universe, Journey to Babel, after Spock’s father has had a heart attack and is in sickbay, the following discussion takes place between Kirk, Spock, Dr. McCoy, Sarek, Amanda, and nurse Chapel:
Spock: Because of the construction of the Vulcan heart. I suggest that a cryogenic open-heart procedure would be the logical approach.
Sarek: Yes, unquestionably.
Kirk: Bones, what about it ?
Dr. McCoy: Well, I’m glad somebody’s asking me something around here. Well, the procedure they’re discussing would require tremendous amounts of blood for the patient.
Nurse Chapel: Doctor.
Dr. McCoy: Yes?
Nurse Chapel: I’ve checked the blood bank. There isn’t enough Vulcan blood and plasma to even begin such an operation.
Kirk: There are other Vulcans aboard.
Sarek: My blood type is T-negative. Somewhat rare, even for a Vulcan.
Dr. McCoy: Yes, I’d say that’s rare.
Spock:My blood is T-negative.
Nurse Chapel: We’ve run a number of blood tests on Mr. Spock. It isn’t true Vulcan blood. It has human blood elements in it.
Spock: It should be possible to filter out the human factors.
Dr. McCoy: Even you couldn’t give that much blood, Spock. It would kill you.
It would seem from this discussion that Amanda’s blood elements have “contaminated” Spock’s blood. Just as some blood traits, such as hemophillia are sex-linked, it is possible that some protein expressions might be, as well.
If there were a mixture of copper and iron-based hemoglobin, they would probably have vastly different reaction rates to substitution with oxygen. Copper would probably be much less reactive, although there are some copper-oxygen binding proteins, such as phenoloxidases and haemocyanins that have evolved to carry oxygen in lower plants and animals. In fact, copper-based oxygen carriers are not as efficient as iron-based carriers, but their packing density is higher (partially, I suspect because porphyrins are very large molecules). As expected, copper-based blood products tend to be green-blue.
If Spock’s blood were copper-based, it should be green-blue. The question is, why is it red? It might be that there is a small contamination of iron-substituted cycnins from Amanda. This would produce a red color that would swamp the copper-based color at low oxygen levels.
The Chicken
Chicken, your memory is better than mine.
My first thought was that both instances were technical misses, more understandable for TOS than the recent movie which had access to more info about Vulcans.
But that’s not in the spirit of the matter, so I’ll wager a guess, maybe two guesses. One is pulled from your 4:26pm post today, that since iron is a more efficient carrier, the red would predominate and be more visible. The problem with that is that it the blue-green would “muddy” the red, with a hue anywhere from a rust color to gray.
The second, and stronger, guess is from your 6:19am post about the infrared, or other light spectrum reason.
Going back to my original question, Chicken, I’ll agree with the possiblity.
I still haven’t seen the movie yet (in this instance, the spoilers don’t bother me) because I’m not sure I’m ready for “the original universe is toast.”
Yeah it was fairly … good. But it started out ridiculous for me. Picture this – they come across an anomaly in space … and this mega huge antagonistic spaceship comes thru the black hole. It makes the federation starship look like a guppy facing a shark … and the captain says “Shields up prepare to fire!”??? WHAT?! I’d warp outta there before you could say ‘BIG FISH!’
Yeah … and what is with placing the FLAGSHIP entirely in the hands of space cadets? We already stretch out imagination to take in the sci fi elements … but this was just ridiculous. Which organization would do that?!
“HE MASSACRES A DEFEATED ENEMY!!!”
I don’t think this is really fair—Kirk offered a cease-fire under set terms; the Romulan refused the terms, so the Enterprise was entitled to resume hostilities. It’s like any other contract—if the other party turns down your offer, you don’t have any agreement and you’re in the same position you were prior to the offer. That’s not a war crime in the least.
Human hemoglobin genes are on chromosomes 6 and 11, so they aren’t sex linked at all. Vulcan hemoglobin is whereever you want it to be. But it doesn’t have to be sex-linked to affect any of this. Spock will still have half of his genes from Sarek and half from Amanda. Those genes can interact in any way we want them to, really, since it’s just made up. You think the physics of Star Trek stretches the truth? The biology is almost always pure fantasy.
Dear Michael,
You wrote:
Human hemoglobin genes are on chromosomes 6 and 11, so they aren’t sex linked at all.
That’s good to know.
However, you wrote:
Those genes can interact in any way we want them to, really, since it’s just made up.
Them’s fight’n words to a Trekkie 🙂
You wrote:
Spock will still have half of his genes from Sarek and half from Amanda.
How do you know? Sarek could have twice as many genes as a human being and therefore only 1/3 of Spock’s genes could be from Amanda. Of course, that wouldn’t make him, “half human,” but we really aren’t told a lot about Vulcan biology. I suppose it would have to be able to work with human DNA, but who said it had to according to human models?
I’m not trying to get into a Vulcan genetics argument, just trying to pull the conversation back in to the real universe, where Vulcan’s are really out there, just waiting for Zephrim Cochran 🙂
By the way, nice blog. Yours is one of the few I’ve seen that actually discuss science and Catholicism in a dedicated fashion.
The Chicken
Jimmy,
I’ve been reading a lot of reviews after finally seeing the movie, and yours is one of the most objective I’ve come across; it really helped me make a clear evaluation of the movie. Thanks! Regarding your question about how Kirk knows to ask Uhura if Romulans attacked the Klingon prison colony… I only saw the movie once so maybe I’m getting this wrong, but as I recall Kirk had just heard the Chekhov mentioning a lightning storm on the intercom. He knew that the Romulan ship that killed his father had produced a lightning storm, so he could have seen the possiblity that if that Romulan ship was indeed producing the current “lightning” around Vulcan, then it could’ve also been responsible for the attack at the Klingon colony….a possibility that would be confirmed or denied by asking Uhura. Also, everyone asks why the Romulans waited around for 25 years before doing anything. Didn’t Spock Prime tell the young Spock that it took him 25 years to come through the black hole after Nero? So Nero waited all that time because his whole purpose was to capture Spock and make him watch the destruction of his planet…and it took 25 years in Nero’s time for Spock to get through the black hole. Am I right about that? Cause, if so, then Spock wouldn’t have been on Delta Vega long at all…perhaps not long enough to find the Federation outpost. Although that wouldn’t explain how he found it so easily once Kirk met him.
Chicken,
Thanks. There’s not too many dedicated science/Catholic blogs, and those that there are seem to be largely dedicated to bioethics, so I hope mine is something a bit different.
Them’s fight’n words to a Trekkie.
Oh, believe you me that I’m a big Trekkie. Since my training is in biology, though, I’ve got to admit that Star Trek takes … creative license.
Sarek could have twice as many genes as a human being and therefore only 1/3 of Spock’s genes could be from Amanda. Of course, that wouldn’t make him, “half human,” but we really aren’t told a lot about Vulcan biology. I suppose it would have to be able to work with human DNA, but who said it had to according to human models?
That’s just the question. We don’t really know anything set about Vulcan genetics, so there’s a lot of blank space. When it comes to higher organisms like humans (and presumably Vulcans) there’s not a lot of flexibility in terms of creating hybrids. The question of chromosome number, for example. Two organisms with different numbers of chromosomes with genes in completely different locations would be unable to reproduce. Even among purely human chromosomal disorders with extra or missing chromosomes, all but a handful are fatal, and even the remaining ones are severely deleterious. Most distinct species even on Earth cannot interbreed, so alien life interbreeding would be even more problematic.
Even given the “it works” explanation for the convergent evolution of morphological similarities, to assume the genetic architecture of humans and Vulcans is similar enough to allow hybrids is implausible given their completely different evolutions. The TNG episode “The Chase” addresses this to some extent, though. I suppose we could assume that the humanoid genetic pattern “seeded” by the ancient humanoids in that episode could be enough to account for the similarity. It does put Star Trek in the interesting position of relying on intelligent design to explain its biology.
I also understand that they address the compatibility of the human and Vulcan genomes in terms of interbreeding in “Enterprise”, but I’ve only seen a handful of episodes from that series, so I’m not sure about that.
I’m not a biologist, either, but I always thought that was one thing that seemed completly far-fetched or fictional-the ability of the species to interbreed. But then as posted above- there was that episode of TNG, that explained the ancients humanoids seeding the Milky Way with their DNA-still don’t know if it would be possible. I seem to remember a TNG episode where Worf’s ex-wife(and Alexander’s mother) was part
human as well as Klingon and was explaining to someone(counselor Troi?) That human/Klingon DNA was compatible with a little outside help(which I took to be some genetic tampering?). Anyone remember that episode?
That episode from Enterprise alluded to has Dr. Phlox stating that Human/Vulcan DNA is compatible- He first thought it wasn’t(due to a flaw in the erroneous cloning method of T’Pol’s and Trips daughter through their stolen genetics) But that He now concluded it should be fine if a Vulcan and human wanted a child.
I was really hoping, right up to the end, that old Spock Would get in his ship and fix the time line. I agree that the producers have on occasion completely lost their minds and no idea what the storyline was.
Sorry, i guess I am not much of a trekkie, I haven’t read the books or the comics and I had to look up what TAS was.
I liked the car chase. I like Captain Pike and I thought the wheelchair fit, but all bets are off now.
As a retired U.S. Navy sailor I do agree, who puts a ship full of cadets on the frontline, although there is precedence in the Star Trek Universe.
Liked the movie. One of the best of the Star Trek movies.
On Kirk not saving Nero, I don’t think that made him a criminal. It would have been a tremendous act of charity to try to save him and his crew from a situation of their own making, and charity does not oblige under such conditions. In essence he merely allowed Nero to reap what he had sown by continuing the battle after terms were refused. Similarly, a fireman or policeman would not be obliged to rescue an arsonist from a building he set on fire if he refused to surrender himself. They could, it would be heroic charity to try, but not morally obligatory.
Dear Bruce,
You wrote:
Similarly, a fireman or policeman would not be obliged to rescue an arsonist from a building he set on fire if he refused to surrender himself. They could, it would be heroic charity to try, but not morally obligatory.
This seems a little muddy, morally, to me. That would be like saying there is no obligation to rescue someone intent on committing suicide if they refuse to stop. Suppose the arsonist were trapped with an innocent child. Is it permissible to rescue only the child and not the arsonist? I don’t want to hijack the thread to discuss these general cases, however.
The Chicken
TMC,
Just to pick your brain. Just watched the TOS episode “The Trouble with Tribbles.” McCoy describes the Tribbles’ ability to reproduce “almost at will” as bi-sexual. Now I am not the smartest fella in the room, but shouldn’t he have said asexual? 🙂
He probably meant hermaphroditic.
The Chicken
David B.
If I may answer — McCoy is correct. Bisexual and asexual reproduction are two different things. Asexual reproduction, used precisely, involves the production of offspring by some means — e.g. fission or budding — that does not involve gametes (sperm and eggs.) Sexual reproduction, on the other hand, makes use of gametes. Generally, sexual reproduction involves two organisms that are distinct sexes, male and female. Some organisms, though, are hermaphrodites and can produce both sperm and eggs, and some of those can self-fertilize — hence bisexual reproduction.
TMC and Michael,
I guess ya’ll are right. 🙂 The reason I thought he misspoke was because he said Tribbles were virtually “born pregnant,” which suggested (to my mind) that Tribbles do not have sex organs but reproduced in another inexplicable process. Therefore, I took his statement of their being able to “reproduce at will” as referring to asexual reproduction.
Correction regarding “reproduced in another inexplicable process”: I do not mean sexual reproduction is an inexplicable process. 😀
For the red matter, the mass of a drop would by my estimate be about that of mars. It would have to be made of super-dense neutron matter just above the limit of self collapse (earth would be compacted into a half inch marble). Any energy introduced into the red matter would naturally push it past the size non-collapse area, heat and pressure of a planet’s core would do it. And to igniting it, the matter, neutrons as I said, couldn’t be ignited, it would just be enough energy to surpass the energy needs. If the mass of the red matter for a single drop (Mars) was as I speculated, how could such a large amount of the matter be contained, since the field would naturally compress it. A black hole from a standard M planet from red matter would probably be about twice the mass of the planet. When Spockprime saw it, it may have been gravity distorting and bending in a lens effect according to Einstein’s relativity.
The Kobayashi Maru is not always no win, Kirk’s nephew won it in the origional timeline without cheating, but it was because the cloaked attackers were Romulan, not Klingon.
Daniel,
The Kobayashi Maru is not always no win, Kirk’s nephew won it in the original timeline without cheating, but it was because the cloaked attackers were Romulan, not Klingon.
I don’t remember this. Is there a (Trek) canon source for this? Maybe it was in an episode I missed…
As for Kirk not saving Nero – it bugs me, granted, but on reflection I’m not sure it’s any worse than the Enterprise-E beaming out Picard but not Ru’afo at the end of Star Trek: Insurrection when the collector ship goes kablooey. Surely the E could have detected that there were two life signs aboard the ship and beamed them both out? Why does the villain always have to die?
OK, I answered my own question: It’s from the 1994 novel Sarek.
Found in this article on Wikipedia.
This movie brings mixed feeling. I felt that Uhura was given too much of a role in order to fill the sexy woman quota for the movie. I didn’t like how most of the crew comes off as these cocky, young teenagers especially in Kirk and Chekov. I did like Karl Urban as Bones, I thought he did a really good job in that role. Frankly, I didn’t like the villains, they weren’t Romulan enough for me, these guys just seem like a bunch of trailer trash. Nero looks like some of my neighbors. I thought there should be more of a psychological element to it, like I always considered Spock and Bones to be two sides of Kirk’s personality always fighting with each other. But I guess the point was to introduce a new timeline from which many sequels will certainly be spawned and to attract the non-trekkies. I think they are going to pay for destroying Vulcan and killing Spock’s mother, but should be interesting what Spock Prime does, whether he is just there for breeding or will he take a new proactive role in Vulcan society. I guess the silver lining of all this is that it does pave the way for a return of Shatner even for a brief cameo in a future movie as I am sure the whole Generations plotline can be scrapped.
From Jimmy’s review:
“BTW, I don’t mind Sarek’s admission later in the movie–after earlier repeating the standard line that the married Spock’s mother because it was ‘logical’–that he married Amanda because he loved her. We’ve known for a long time that Vulcans have emotions and very powerful ones. They use the ‘We’re logical’ business as a game to keep them from completely losing control of themselves.
DR. PHIL: Welcome to the “Dr. Phil” show. On today’s episode, we have the case of where a man claims he has no emotions. His lil’ lady friend, Uhura, says she has a hard time dealin’ with this.
UHURA: That’s right, Dr. Phil. Right after Spock’s planet imploded, he was kissing me and grabbing my rear end and …
DR. PHIL: Whoooooo!
UHURA: After the crisis was over, though, it was back to “I have no emotions,” yada yada yada. The thrill is gone.
MR. SPOCK: I do admit that such things occurred … regrettably … during a moment of weakness … and because I had realised that my shrew of a wife, T’Pring, had most likely died in the implosion of Vulcan.
UHURA: Now wait just one dang second, you didn’t tell me you were MARRIED!
MR. SPOCK: You would understand it as a betrothal.
UHURA: A what???
MR. SPOCK: It makes little difference. There is a 99.6% likelihood that she is dead. Therefore, I am a free Vulcan. No worries.
DR. PHIL: Now Mr. Spock, when did you come to the conclusion that you ain’t got no emotions?
SPOCK: Before the age of Surek, Vulcans were a savage people. In purging our emotions and in devoting ourselves to logic, we were able to survive.
DR. PHIL: That don’t sound very healthy to me. Seems to me that y’all are just using this whole “logic” thing as an excuse to be a horse’s patootie.
SPOCK: A horse’s what? I am not familiar with this particular colourful metaphor, or the anatomical part to which you refer.
DR. PHIL: What I’m sayin’ is, you’re a fraud!
UHURA: Amen, Dr. Phil!
MR. SPOCK: Are you implying that I am a sick and dysfunctional product of a sick and dysfunctional society?
DR. PHIL: Does a chicken have lips? Heck yeah, that’s what I’m sayin’! Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt, buddy!
MR. SPOCK: You are incorrect. Geographical surveys indicate that it is.
DR. PHIL: When we come back from our break … I’m gonna ask Mr. My Poop Don’t Stink why he goes inta heat ever’ seven years! See ya when we get back …
Edward C, also in a VOY episode, ‘Learning Curve’, The enemy is Romulan and the stranded ship is Ferengi – (wikipedia link) – Tuvok suggests that this scenario is winnable (or at least that ‘retreat is a viable option’).
Hi Jimmy,
Deacon Harbey here…
> What is that thing Kirk crashes the car into?
I’m not sure if someone already answered this (I have not read all the combox) But it looks like a quarry. Not sure if Iowa is known by its rock quarry. (Un discovered yet perhaps…)
>KOBAYASHI MARU: Didn’t like Kirk’s solution. Way too cheesy. Not elegant.
Agreed, I would have done something like, order something off the wall like eject the warp core, or start flashing Morse code with the lights of the ship. Since this is a computer simulation after all, such behavior would cause the Klingon routines to hang and then they could be picked up by simulated photon torpedoes. Then Kirk’s software change could be explained as he just disabled the logic integrity sections of these routines. Which since they were programed by a Vulcan were critical for the correct behavior of the whole simulation.
Deacon Harbey
On meeting Spock in the cave…
If it is merely the result of chaotic chance, perposterous. If guided by some higher providence, then perfectly acceptable.
It occurred to me that the original characters are all drawn together, even in a parallel universe, because God might desire and have in mind a communion of persons which our lives are meant to have and which He sees be realized for our greatest good.
The theological problem with this idea in the storyline would be: “What about the billions of people who died on Vulcan? Why does God seem only to care about these (main) characters?” One could argue that the Enterprise crewmen are (elect, predestined, situated?) to have an impact on their times greater than their contemporaries in any universe, thus meriting God’s special attention to their development. Why does Kirk and Spock’s plan work with only a 4% chance of success? Because they have unique, irreplacable, and priviledged roles to play in God’s bigger, higher plan.
Yet, I prefer to believe that in reality, God is not willing to jettison a billion, a million, or even one person for the good of some favored VIP’s. God is so great, he need not compromise on His full and perfect love and care for each of us.
It is with the utmost affection that I say, having read this post and comments it, that it is no wonder that the rest of the world believes that we Trek fans all live in our parent’s basements [DELETED]
Please keep it clean, DGS. Thanks. -SDG
DGS, SDG? Uncanny.
Another VERY big problem with the film is that Romulans are in the movie in the first place.
Romulans are first encountered by the Federation AFTER Kirk has graduated from the Starfleet Academy and become Captain of the Enterprise.
Not even this “timeline disruption” plot provides an excuse for this horrible departure from the original.
Hmmm… a faster-than-light ship outside of the event horizon of a black hole, and yet unable to escape? Usually Star Trek physics isn’t so inconvenient.
On the other hand, I guess there’s really no need to pass on an excuse to blow up a warp core.
Enjoyed the comments. Now I can hang with the other Startrek Geeks at the next Startrek convention!!!
Note, I spelled Startrek as one word to see if any geek would correct my spelling.
We Star Trek geeks knew that. We were just waiting to see how long you would wait before fessing up. Usually it takes longer than five minutes.