Catholic News Service has an interesting roundup of comments from U.S. bishops concerning their reaction to Summorum Pontificum and its implementation in their dioceses.
GET THE STORY.
Author: Jimmy Akin
Jimmy was born in Texas, grew up nominally Protestant, but at age 20 experienced a profound conversion to Christ. Planning on becoming a Protestant seminary professor, he started an intensive study of the Bible. But the more he immersed himself in Scripture the more he found to support the Catholic faith, and in 1992 he entered the Catholic Church. His conversion story, "A Triumph and a Tragedy," is published in Surprised by Truth. Besides being an author, Jimmy is the Senior Apologist at Catholic Answers, a contributing editor to Catholic Answers Magazine, and a weekly guest on "Catholic Answers Live."
View all posts by Jimmy Akin
Interesting, generally balanced perspectives. Thanks Jimmy.
I have a really dumb question…
Can you celebrate the Tridentine mass in English?
Jimbo
I think the Holy Father is trying to bring us together with this, why is it that people have to make it such a big deal? What is it about the Tridentine mass that makes some people go bonkers? I happen to like Latin and when I don’t have responsibility for kids I probably will attend a Tridentine Mass provided it is done well.
But…I like the new Mass as well. I have investigated the claims of traditionalists and I just don’t find their reasoning compelling. There is nothing wrong with the “Novus Ordo” when it is translated into English correctly. Sadly ICEL has wrecked the translation but that is another story.
Satan is having his laughs over this. Dividing the Church with the very liturgy designed by God to unite us is a stroke of genius. Hopefully the faithful will come together and respect the past as we move into the future.
Jimbo,
Prior to the publication of the new Roman Missal by Pope Paul VI, the Mass of the 1962 Missal was celebrated (primarily) in 3 languages, to the best of my knowledge: Latin (for most of the Catholic world), a form of Old Church Slavonic in parts of Central Europe, and Hebrew (permission having been given for this in the 1950s). Of course, there is some Greek and Hebrew in the Latin version of the Roman Mass in both Missals.
Prior to the publication of the Pauline Missal, there was an “interim” Order of the Mass in 1965 which was essentially the Tridentine Mass, but with simplified rubrics, some change to the text, and this was published in vernacular languages. However, it retained the 1962 lessons (two per Mass, ordinarily).
One site which discuss this 1965 Order of the Mass are:
http://traditionalromanmass.blogspot.com/.
and a fairly balanced article on the liturgical changes of the last 50 years can be found on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_of_Paul_VI
Christopher,
in your investigation did you not find the new lectionary ommissions and some of the arrangements of them (ie. relegating important moral teachings to weekdays) troubling?
What do you think of the changes to the Roman Canon (and the fact that it may be replaced by one of several other Eucharistic prayers, and ussually is?). What about the changes to the confiteor? Aren’t you troubled by the apparent change in the normal rubrics of priestly orientation, as is the Holy Father? What do you think about the much more casual treatment of the Blessed Sacrament even when the rubrics are observed?
Just curious.
Matt
Matt,
I cannot address all of these right now, but I promise to get back to them. But the changes to the Confiteor….which are mainly removals of explicit confession to specific saints just do not bother me in the least. The new Confiteor still says “and to you my brothers and sisters” which includes living Christians and Saints in heaven. The essential character of the Confiteor has not been changed at all. What was changed does not cause any defect in faith.
I am not troubled by the decisions of the council or the church leaders at the time. However, I am greatly troubled by the implementations of these changes here in the United States especially. The lack of devotion that is evident in many parishes is disturbing. I can only lay the blame at the feet of both laity and episcopal authority. We are less devout, not because of the rite that we celebrate Mass with, but because of spiritual defects that are in us. These spiritual defects are due to, in my view at least, lack of proper catechesis. We have a Catechesis crisis in the Church and that is the true problem, not whether or not the Novus Ordo or the Tridentine Mass is said at a particular parish.
We are less devout, not because of the rite that we celebrate Mass with, but because of spiritual defects that are in us. These spiritual defects are due to, in my view at least, lack of proper catechesis. We have a Catechesis crisis in the Church and that is the true problem, not whether or not the Novus Ordo or the Tridentine Mass is said at a particular parish.
Overall I agree but I do think this needs some important footnotes. I do not see poor catechesis as “the problem” but rather our rich, indulgent life. It seems to me that good catechesis follows a desire to grow closer to God and to sacrifice our desires NOT the other way around. A hard heart prevents good catechesis, a pure heart is already “catecheized”, it only needs the rubrics.
Christopher, well said with both posts.
Matt, for as much as you harped at me earlier about citations, it would be helpful for you to provide some examples of your claim “the new lectionary ommissions and some of the arrangements of them (ie. relegating important moral teachings to weekdays)”
to jimmy akin & experts,,,,
is good to be back on track TLM. thank you Lord Jesus Christ..thank you papa ben….
Can anyone of you tell me before Vatican 2 and after Vatican 2, how many percent catholics converted to other religion or faith. i know vatican 2, church attendance is dropped, priest vocation is dropped. But converted to other religion, i really don’t know the actual figure…
just for knowledge only guys..
I happen to like Latin and when I don’t have responsibility for kids I probably will attend a Tridentine Mass provided it is done well.
But…I like the new Mass as well.
Christopher, last Sunday I found a Latin Novus Ordo mass in my diocese. It was awesome! Incense was used liberally, there was a choir who sung many parts of the mass in Latin, the pastor actually called us out and challenged us to change in his homily instead of telling us how great we are just the way we are, he led us in the consecration instead of facing us, and after class we all prayed to St. Michael. Basically wherever an option was presented he chose the most reverent option rather than the easiest one. At the end of mass the pastor gave $500 checks to 5 senior altar boys who were going off to college in the fall (it sounded like all were going for theological programs [pray for vocations! this priest alone is obviously having a great effect on our youth!]) and when we habitually clapped after he called the first one’s name he corrected us. By simply pointing out that we shouldn’t be clapping for each other while in the presence of the blessed sacrament he pretty much gave us an extra homily in 10 seconds. I’ve never been to a Mass of John XXIII, but after seeing the Novus Order done right I don’t feel a need to (although I’m still very curious to participate in one). I hope that one of the long term effects of the motu proprio will be to return the Novus Ordo to the way it was meant to be celebrated.
after class we all prayed to St. Michael
Sorry, that should be after Mass.
Christopher,
in your investigation did you not find the new lectionary ommissions and some of the arrangements of them (ie. relegating important moral teachings to weekdays) troubling?
What do you think of the changes to the Roman Canon (and the fact that it may be replaced by one of several other Eucharistic prayers, and ussually is?). What about the changes to the confiteor? Aren’t you troubled by the apparent change in the normal rubrics of priestly orientation, as is the Holy Father? What do you think about the much more casual treatment of the Blessed Sacrament even when the rubrics are observed?
Just curious.
Matt
Matt,
Would it have made you feel any better if prior to implementing the Novus Ordo, the Pope took up a vote amongst all Catholics regarding whether or not the Novus Ordo was okay with them?
Better yet, since some of us know much better than the Pope most of the time, why not simply convert the Catholic Church into a Democracy and go by popular vote in order to appease the entire Church?
This Petrine Authority thing is an antiquated, not to mention, mindless submission to the heirarchy which should have been made extinct a long, long time ago.
I say, for the betterment of the Church and in order to obtain the approval of all Catholics, be done with Papal Primacy and institute Democracy within the Church so that nobody will complain in the end since they would have participated in a vote.
The Catholic Church is nothing but a man-made institution anyway.
Given that the old lectionary covered so much less of the Bible, I think our position should be to wonder what teachings IT missed. I also think the idea that nothing important should be taught on a weekday lest anyone miss it unwise. Having to make sure weekday Mass goers get passages found “unimportant” by some criteria probably isn’t helping those who do bother to go or to read the daily readings. I certainly wouldn’t want to be the one deciding what in the Bible is not an important teaching.
I wonder…
Pre-Motu Proprio
Priest: I would like to offer latin mass for my flock.
Bishop: NO!
Post-Motu Proprio
Priest: I intend to offer latin mass for my flock.
Bishop: Are you qualified?
Priest: No, but I would take a course to become qualified. Can I go take one?
Bishop: NO!
Is there any sense about how this move on the Vatican’s part will impact the completion of a corrected English translation of the “ordinary” rite?
Beuller?
Beuller??
Great commentary by Pat Buchanan on his take of the events, which one can only hope our Bishops understand:
“And so the pope has come full circle. At Vatican II, the future Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, head of the Holy Office for the Defense of the Faith under John Paul II, went about in coat and tie and was seen as a radical reformer and modernist theologian in the mold of his friend Hans Kung.
Now, Kung is silent, Ratzinger is pope, and the Latin Mass, which had fallen into disuse with the introduction of the new rite in 1970, is back.
The introduction of the new Mass has been attended by a raft of liturgical innovations by freelancing priests that are transparently heretical. And the years since Vatican II and the introduction of the new Mass have been marked by a crisis of faith in Europe and the United States.
Churches have closed. Faithful have fallen away, or converted to other faiths. Congregations have dwindled. Convents have emptied out. Vocations are a fraction of what they once were. Belief in the creedal truths of Catholicism is not what it was in the years before Vatican II – the halcyon days of the great pope and future Saint. Pius XII.
One cannot know the effect of Pope Benedict’s decision. But the ferocity with which it was fought suggests some bishops are aware of the power of the old Latin Mass and the appeal of its mystery and solemnity to the young.
Pope Benedict, raised Catholic in Nazi Germany, once a reformer, but shaken by the events of 1968 and the social, cultural and moral revolution that followed, seems to have concluded that the Catholic Church’s apertura a sinistra, its opening to the left, has run its course theologically, liturgically and morally, and failed. Restored tradition can do no harm and may offer hope for the revival of a faith that is in its deepest crisis since the Reformation.”
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56587
God bless him!
The Traditional Roman rite has been used in English by many in the Episcopal Church’s Anglo-Catholic movement for close to 100 years.
I think it would be edifying to allow the Traditional Roman rite in English. The liturgy is a catechism, and I think the traditional rite does a better job of getting across the theology of the Sacrifice of the Mass than the new liturgy does.
It also has far more in common with the Eastern rites and ancient Judaic practices than the New rite does. Many of the aspects of the old rite that were jettisoned after Vatican II were done so for political expediency according to Abp. Bugnini, the father of the new rite.
John- do you have a citation for Bugnini saying that?